We’re now reaching “fallacyception” levels. Where “ad hominem” means “pointing out my use of a fallacy” lol.
And ‘round n’ 'round we go.
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They do, but alright. We clearly won’t agree on this matter, so moving on.
A majority vote is all it takes. If the rest of the group votes yes, then there’s nothing I can do about it.
Okay, so you think it was the intention of Blizzard to give the dungeon deserter debuff to people who were kicked for playing below average or because they didn’t play optimally?
Do people generally just not apply their common sense here when it works against them?
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Clearly not, else you’d not try to ignore Blizzard’s statements to come up with some secret meaning unrelated to the actual explanation. The point is to let groups self-manage. Anyone can be removed for any reason with a majority or unanimous vote. It’s that simple. You cannot twist it into anything else without actual lying.
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If you guys were as interested in calling out the people you agree with for the exact same behavior you’re trying to call me out for, your moral high-roading might actually mean something.
But you’ll start calling people out for their apparent fallacies, but when that person starts pointing out yours, you call that behavior disingenuous.
It’s really sad.
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You really don’t understand this do you?
It’s not a tool designed to punish people for what you perceive to be a wrongdoing.
It’s a player agency tool designed to give groups the choice of who they do or don’t want to play with.
That’s it. There is nothing more to it.
You see it as something it is not, you’ve made up in your head what it is and how it should be used, and that’s in direct conflict with what the creators designed it for.
They were just upset because I pointed out numerous fallacies that applied and then wanted to misrepresent the meaning of fallacies and try shifting the onus. It didn’t work at all.
But I’m not going to keep harping on them. They know they were in the wrong whether they admit it or not. Anything more is just salting the wound.
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I mean I’m not calling anyone anything and had nothing to do with this side-quest about fallacies until it was brought up in reply to me. It’s not my job to make your argument for you though I try to steel-man when possible. Pointing out the use of a fallacy in an argument however is discussing the argument. It is not attacking a person.
I just made it clear that proving an unjust kick to someone who says no kick is unjust is pointless. No matter what is provided the slightest error would be used as justification for a kick and since nobody plays perfectly I’d expect to see something like “not enough CD uptime” as a “just reason to kick” in trivial content.
My worst experience of this so far was during Hallows End. I died about a third of the way through the fight (I was on my first melee character), was left there the remainder of the fight (no rez, which didn’t bother me as they were busy with the boss, and no kick), the fight ended, I rezzed myself and then started running down the walkway towards the boss to pick up my loot, and THEN they kicked me.
To say I was hot would be a massive understatement. I had to walk away from my computer to cool off.
I’m not much on bashing and demanding change but as demonstrably detrimental as this is to player optimism and satisfaction, something needs to be done here. At a minimum, get rid of that 30 min punishment for something - the kick - the player had no choice about. At best, find a way to make kicking people more difficult or, somehow, not as inconsequential to those initiating the kick. Maybe make a limit per person per hour? “You can kick one player per hour… is this the player you want to kick this hour?”
So you think Blizzard wants to give the deserter debuff to players who aren’t as good at playing the game as others? That’s 100% their design intent?
“You’re bad at the game, so you get to sit in time out for 30 minutes.”
The only reason why Blizzard says “kick for any reason” is because they can’t feasibly regulate the group finder system well enough to determine if the kick was just or unjust.
There are already internal cooldowns for people who use it frequently.
This is another common misconception about this. It’s not a small group of people kicking a large group of people over and over again. It’s a large group of people kicking a small group of people.
That’s why the cooldown doesn’t do much to prevent you getting kicked.
I think that you are being intellectual dishonest. What Blizzard’s goals are, are the stated goals in their support article for the vote to kick system. There’s no um actualy here.
And I think you’re playing stupid, so glad we can agree in some capacity.
Overall the best option for people is to try to use good judgment when VtKs come across their screen. You can be the person that ruins the fun for the type of person that abuses it by hitting the “no” option.
At least until Blizzard makes a change, if that ever happens, this is probably your best option. Don’t let them get their thrill by putting some person in timeout for no good reason and hope the other party members are scrutinizing kick attempts as well.
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Agreed. Unfortunately, most people run group finder on autopilot and don’t really pay attention to much of anything, so I imagine most people will vote yes because they don’t care.
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I lucked out by having a fellow paladin during the last failed (and unwarranted) kick attempt against me that was looking out and voted no, then told me about it.
They had tried to kick him the boss before. Also for no reason.
Not everybody is garbo out there thankfully.
I’ve voted no on more vtks than I’ve voted yes on but can easily believe that if I was removed from the situation and replaced with someone from this thread that those votes would have gone through. 
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You are not wrong. They didn’t come out and say “This system is not intended for idiotic reasons to kick”. It’s one of those things where they shouldn’t have to. Blizzard seems to put too much faith in common sense, which people have shown over the years isn’t so common anymore.
Yes, if me and my friends kick you because “lol”, nothing will be done about it. That does not mean my friends and I were not jagoffs for doing so.
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Indeed, they said any reason. Any reason. Not reasons that the forum trolls agree with.
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Instead it’s reasons that in-game trolls agree with.
Kicking someone isn’t trolling, no matter how many times you plug your ears to that fact.
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