This is the whole problem that you and I have. You don’t need to grind for TF, but if you feel you do it is all on you. Either way friend I have to run it has been fun talking.
Just read the original post when the feature was introduced:
Here I’ll even help …
As you’re working on progression, those first few bosses can now continue to provide a chance at upgrades, making repeated kills potentially more exciting and rewarding. Those additional upgrades can then help to slowly raise power, and boost you over whatever progression roadblock you may hit.
Thunderforging was a gear progression system. They said that. It evolved into Warforging in SoO and eventually Titanforging in HFC but the reason behind it has always been the same. To give a form of gear progression to people farming content that is no longer rewarding.
What it turned into in Legion is absurd and it broke the game and there’s no reason why Legion/BfA titanforging needs to exist in the way it does or why the old system wasn’t perfectly acceptable the way it was.
I will never grind for TF, don’t misunderstand that. You can’t even “grind” for TF, that’s the difference. You can grind a dungeon though, they’re two different things. The whole point of where I stand is to control gear upgrades/gear, throw some good gear behind the currency as well so casuals don’t just rely on raids/dungeons, that’s even better.
I said heroic. Heroic BoD is ilvl 400. BoD/CoS is the current tier whether you like it or not.
That’s thinking about this as a solo player. Unfortunately this isn’t a solo player game. This is a MMO. That means that when trying to participate in multiplayer activities, your relative power starts to matter. Handicapping your progression just handicaps your multiplayer opportunities.
As I said above, none of this affects me. I’m well beyond where it affects my playstyle (except for TF minimally), but for those in lower difficulties (particularly if they pug), it most certainly affects them. It makes zero sense that someone who does norm/heroic raiding and someone who does only WQ ends up at nearly the exact same end-point.
And acting like those asking that they not require professional help, while maintaining that those who necessitate that they do don’t require professional help is just the epitome of hypocrisy.
Either the gear matters or it doesn’t. Which is it?
It doesn’t matter what he says in that Q&A because other than being amplified times 1000 the system functions exactly the same as it did in MoP when it was added as a gear progression system.
Because if Ion says 2 + 2 = 5 in a Q&A it doesn’t make it true when anybody with a pair of eyes and a functional brain can see that it’s not.
I don’t even see how you can seriously argue that forging isn’t a gear progression system when the entire purpose of it is to give you higher level gear than what you had before.
What is it then if its not a form of gear progression?
This is a game, you know, entertainment? So to a degree yes, i do think raiders or anyone that plays WoW should do it for enjoyment.
I was taking my shot at the elitist groups that make up many of these types of threads.
As far rewards go some bit of equality regardless of what you do is healthy. I do think the gearing system is a bit broken, but not for most of the reasons of this thread.
Warmode would not be nearly as successful if the gear gap was major. So i definitely like that many play styles can yield at least somewhat competitive gear.
I do think we need a currency system back in place that all play styles can benefit from. Definitely need tier gear for raiding. Even with gear close in item level tier gear provides an advantage and is just cool.
The subject of titanfordging, not sure. I guess toning it down a bit would be the solution. Given that it happens to anyone, any play style then whats it really harming? I believe the harder content has increased proc chances too.
Oh and no i dont and dont think other casual players require gear equality to play. In fact casual players probably care less about this silly subject. I only have gotten involved because i used to be into hardcore end game content. I find the variety for game play refreshing, and it still is fun and rewarding.
No, I’m worried about the health of the game. I’m worried that I see practices that would’ve had me bow out if I hadn’t been fortuitous in my current position. That’s what I’m worried about. Right now, anyone who cares about their in-game effort actually effecting their in-game character progression end-point only gets it if they participate in the literal hardest content the game has to offer. Unfortunately… the vast majority of players simply are not good enough, or don’t have the time to dedicate towards such content.
I’m arguing, that such progression should be offered to a larger audience base as I think that would be healthier for the game in general. I think more people would want to play the game if they knew that their efforts would actually yield a different end result.
You’re stating that players who ask for meaningful rewards to match their efforts indicates they require professional help. Yet when other players ask for meaningful rewards for their content regardless of the lack of effort… Those players are fine. Why is it one group needs professional help, yet the other does not? Both groups of players are stating that their content is worthless without the rewards. Why are you treating one different to the other? Surely those who require heroic level rewards for killing 10 sheep also necessitate, in your mind, professional help? Or do they just have a personal problem?
Long story short. That’s a terrible argument. Either the gear is a meaningful carrot to chase or it isn’t. If your argument is: Just play what you enjoy. Then I posit to you… Change the gear rewards for WQ back to LFR levels and… play what you enjoy. At least in that direction, you’re not affecting the relative nature of power when coming at this from a multiplayer perspective. As it is now… We have no idea if an ilvl 405 player has simply done WQ to that power or has tackled actually challenging content to reach that level. Hence the necessity of third party add ons.