And why is this a problem? did i miss something?
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Titan forging was bad for casual players because the more someone like myself farmed content for forges the more inflated ilvls get.
By day 2 of heroic raid I was already 430 easily.
Now if I sign up to a group a more casual player was trying to get into they donāt stand a chance.
I never understood why casuals thought forging helped them when someone like myself has way more forges than them and it pushes the expected ilvls up.
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Speaking as a Mythic raider, not only is high M+ harder than farming the intro bosses (especially pushovers like Champions or Blackwater) where most of the Mythic gear actually comes from, but M+ needs the raw ilvl way more than raiders.
Except for exponentially doubling in power every 4-5 levels, which makes things you barely even noticed on a 10 (Kragg, etc) suddenly dominant risks.
Titanforges forced harder gear resets per patch cycle and the content to be tuned for titanforged gear.
Blizz has shown they can not handle player power increasing rapidly which is why we are seeing item level squishes now. It looks like after shadowlands another item level squish will be required because Blizz doesnāt know how to give back player power through characters but rather do it through rentals and high item level gear.
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Yes I have described this earlier.
You might as well read the whole post.
itās not because you can nuke something right now that the boss wasnāt hard before, thatās what happen in a static difficulty system. Is M+ harder because the gear checks becomes harder? Is basicly doing the same thing but with higher numbers really something that you want to claim the hardest? I donāt think M+ is harder than challenge mode for most of it, they could have done an āhardmodeā cm and be done with it. The reason we see m+ this way is people want their gear to matter, they want a place to showoff it to maximise it.
And the benthic gear is a whole issue alone.
But is the game harder when itās mainly gear check? Compare current raiding with Classic raiding youāll see the difference. Classic raiding is mainly only gear checks.
Itās normal that M+ you feel thereās a hardstop because of the infinite scaling, thatās intended. Itās not worse or better because of that. But I wouldnāt say that itās the main reason itās hard. Knowing how to pull, ccing trash etc. That is what I feel is what make m+ hard and well interesting.
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I think at this point weāre essentially agreeing. My point was that M+ actually has a use (and higher up, a direct need) for gear of arbitrarily high ilvl, and removal of TF will impact them more than it impacts us.
As Iāve said in other discussions though, Iād rather see M+ and raid gear differentiate themselves with secondaries that are actually useful for themselves.
One of the reasons given when forging came in if Iām not mistaken was to act as a soft nerf to bosses when people were stuck. Something like mythic ashvane for example where a lot of people struggled. Personally I think itās silly still because people should hurt get better to min max performance but that was what blizzard said when it was introduced.
But M+ are part of the same āpveā, removing M+ from the āpveā equation would mean putting those players in their own sphere and saying that playstyle is not reconcilable with others. Like I feel pvp should be vs pve and pvp rewards should mostly be better in pvp as pve rewards should mostly be better in pve.
I donāt feel that is a goal in wow to divise further than pve/pvp, they donāt even want to divide pvp/pve atm.
Technicly, you could say that before titanforged was unjust for mythic raiders, because technicly no mythic items could titanforged. This is just restoring the balance on that part. But donāt think M+ items are gonna be worthless. Corrupting can be worth over +15 ilvl and M+ is the best source of gear making it the best source of corrupting.
And if you wanted to be the best competitive M+ before, you should have done before mythic raiding too. The trinkets and weapons are better often there. And you get more chance at better loot.
I personnaly do pvp even if my end goal is mythic raiding because you can at some point decide to get a specific piece of Azerith. And I will also do M+ next tier for a long time.
Not at all. If you had secondaries that stressed things useful in each one, theyād be optimal for themselves but cross pollination would still be situational. Like if M+ gear emphasized raw HP, spike healing, cleave, etc there are a lot of raid fights thatās useful. If raid gear emphasized basal healing, longevity, ST, there are plenty of M+ weeks thatās useful. But youād still be organizing them to focus on the main brick wall of each.
Simple fix. Donāt overtune bosses. Or even better, do that stupid stat squish they did in PvP based on ilvl.
Oh simple. Idk why they didnāt think of that. Lmao
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This is really their approach to everything now. The only way they can think of to reward characters is to nerf something then let us earn it back.
We took half of your abilitiesā¦but look, some of them are now on your artifact weapon for you to unlock.
We removed many of the mobs that drop deep sea satinā¦but now tailors can do a quest chain to increase their cloth drops.
Weāre corrupting your gear, but you can grind to make those upgrades actually usable.
Even flying moving from gold cost to pathfinder fits this pattern.
TF was only half the problem. M+ is the other half. So many people have their BiS in dungeons, and maybe only a few raid pieces, and this stayed true for the whole expansion. Losing tier sets certainly contributed to this as well, but generally speaking M+ was a much more farmable way to get gear, and often had the best gear anyway.
What this led to is a huge devaluation of raids, leading to many players only killing the end boss a couple of times then no longer raiding. Even worse, many people ended up farming M+ the entire expansion looking for the exact same items just at a higher ilvl. Every major patch with an ilvl bump would basically reset the process and people would farm the same stuff over again, and the fact that it could TF meant not only did you need to get the specific item you wanted, you needed it to get a solid TF too.
Meanwhile most raid drops, outside of a handful of trinkets and weapons, have become very unexciting and disappointing to get. As of late Blizz has tried to fix that with some special effects on certain pieces but it generally hasnāt been enough, and most loot is still vanilla stats anyway.
This is my biggest disappointment of BFA. Loot just generally isnāt exciting anymore. Legion made M+ work because not only were the dungeons varied and good (while BFA all feel designed to cater to M+ invitationals) but also because raid loot was still fairly special, with tier sets, solid trinket design compared to dungeons, and plenty of transmog for collectors. Now in BFA, Azerite pieces are a horrible replacement for tier sets and just donāt work, trinkets in dungeons are generally just as good or even better than most raid trinkets, and raids come with only one transmog per armour type to collect and a handful of weapons.
In fact, even competitively, M+ is edging out raiding, not that that matters specifically to me as Iām certainly not a competitive player, but the point still stands. Raid has the race to Mythic world first and then no one really cares (proven by the fact that top 100 lists hasnāt convinced low end horde guild to go alliance to get an easyish top 100 spot). M+ invitational gets celebrated and hyped up every time itās around.
Basically speaking a mixture of M+ and TF, along with raid gearing being especially subpar this expansion, has led to raids being extremely undervalued. Thereās pretty much no reason to raid this expansion except to experience the fights and story, the latter of which can be done in LFR, and beyond thatā¦ why do anything besides M+ looking for the exact same loot except at a higher ilvl for the entire expansion? So boringā¦ At least with TF gone there will be a reason to push higher raid difficulties and farm themā¦ but only at the highest end. Lower end raiding still suffers the same problems.
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They have created a cyclical game play loop that isnāt interesting because it is overdone temporary systems or just rented for expansion length.
Blizz went to the well of hard resets with rentals too far. Last time we have seen a new talent tier has been WoD. Last time classes received new baseline skills or spells was MoP.
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Itās true, never look a gift horse in the mouth type of problem.
While I wouldnāt say TF was a gift, it was kind of a non-issue for most, when I got it on my alts I was rather pleased by the surprise.
Typical though people fashioned their play time around it as well as their progression and it became an obsession of the worst degree. Now it will be gone and we shall see what happens.
A similar type story, I complained once about working ALL the time and having too many hours in a day and not enough time to live and spend with my family. Well I spoke up quite verbally and said something along the line of I will take a day off if need be when things get quietā¦well that made sense when I was logging 16 hour days on the regular.
Fast forward to a year of barely logging 40 hours a week and wellā¦the pinch hurts more. They took what I said literally and itās been a long hard climb back up to get considered again for extra work.
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thats because they have no life.
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Corruption is going to ultimately be 100 times dtronger than TF if you have the right pieces.
I donāt think itās going to do much of anything different except cause even more confusion amongst players.
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lol. The top Mythic raiders who compete in WF races and make hall of fame play ridiculous hours, but most Mythic guilds likely play less than you do.
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Only thing is you have to RNG yourself into a tier 3 corrupted piece with the bonus you want, crit, haste whatever, on top of doing dailies, wqs, assausts, visions every single day to get your cape leveled up enough to use your corrupted pieces.
19 different types of bonuses that can appear on corrupted gear odds are getting the one that is best for your class and at tier 3 is the same as getting a crazy titan forge or worse.
Haha sounds fun right? 