To the first part, I feel that’s a stretch. Stating that you want to continue gear progression so you don’t get dogged on in PvP by a Mythic Raider shouldn’t even really be a conversation. If anything a PvP player should have equal gear to a Mythic raider in PvP combat.
And it’s not that cut and dry in terms of getting everything. It’s not likely going to be a couple of weeks and you’re full geared. It certainly can if you’re extremely lucky but it can also range to months of grinding. You don’t need any more gear to clear the raid so why do you need gear from the higher difficulty without even touching it?
That’s an irrelevant question that you already know the answer to.
I did say it would probably take a couple of months of progressing and re-clearing before finally getting everything I could use from it. So what of the following months into the tier?
You don’t have to, I was just stating why I like having titanforging, because it narrows the gap between gear levels in PvP. I feel far better losing to someone because I was outplayed, rather than because they outgeared me. I remember the days of vanilla and losing to every raider I came across simply because they had gear and I didn’t. For as much as I didn’t like about BC, at least they had resilience which was awesome.
We could definitely have a conversation on alternative ways to fix that issue though.
Doesn’t change the fact that I would still have a commitment to my guild who helped me get the gear in the first place. And while I am loyal to my friends here, the fact is, once I finish gearing from the raid, there would really be nothing to look forward to.
Of course there can be a conversation about alternatives there too.
It’s a good idea to understand why people are no longer interested in the game.
For the OP, the game isn’t harder or easier.
The conversations and discussions regarding why Titanforging is bad – I dislike Titanforging because character progression is hidden behind RNG. I prefer more deterministic rewards, but I’m totally okay with MOP’s initial version. I’d even be okay with +15 (1 tier) as a bonus be the upper limit.
+15 gives enough room for the RNG element, but also gives players, like myself, a way to feel accomplished/complete. I am happy when I get a BiS item. I feel like I can player the characters I prefer to play and get decent gear for the content I participate in. I like the idea of BiS being achievable, +15 allows that to happen over 3-6 months, depending on your activity.
For game design, I am strongly against the chance that trivial content may be awarding the best gear in the game. Jackpots are cool, but mega-jackpots are just… not something I want to support.
this tier was weird in that 4 slots were occupied by socketed benthic bis in eternal palace only(especially since this wasn’t hard to get, just lengthy). Azerite gear as usual was between m+ cache and raid fights since we had less azerite bosses then dazar. Add in heart of azerite and thats half of the gear spots on your character that might not be able to get an upgrade from the raid in any difficulty. M+ cache could also compete on everything but the good trinkets and the good weapons, but weapons were generally earned early since the first three bosses had basically every weapon type. At the very least with benthic gone that alone will make gearing in nyloatha a bit more sane before accounting for corruption.
A little off topic, but worth noting that with operation mechagon m+ coming we might see a new tyranny on rings as the if you do…, …then you get rings will probably be significantly better then anything else within 30 ilvl before accounting for corruption.
Why not have valor points and upgradable gear return? Give us something to continue to work toward even after we’ve gotten all the available drops from a raid? Would have no RNG involved there.
They haven’t been complaining directly about all those LFR heroes in better-than-mythic raid gear they got the first week LFR opened, as we saw in Legion. And all during Legion no one making this claim was ever able to come up with an example of either a mythic raider decked out in titanforged LFR gear or a casual fully decked out in better-than-mythic ilvl gear. They always came up with “examples” of people who clearly had done heroic raiding and spammed high keys.
During Legion we were still hearing that raiders raided for camaraderie, for the challenge, and gear was only a tool. Now what we’re hearing is that it’s all only about the gear. So many posts by raiders saying they only raid for the gear and they’d never raid again if they were able to get geared otherwise. Odd.
It made raiders feel bad knowing that somewhere out there there were people who had a piece or two of titanforged gear they didn’t deserve, which had raised their ilvl a total of 3 points. Some raiders.
His gear is nowhere near as good as yours. But again, you are pointing out that someone got gear that they didn’t deserve, who is in fact not trying to use that gear to cheat their way into harder content than they are ready for. Yet you are saying this is bad for the game because it makes you feel bad.
I have read this many times. So sorry if you missed it.
So everything I have read before in probably hundreds of these threads should be ignored because it doesn’t fit comfortably in your narrative?
Every anti-titanforging thread was full of raiders posting that they felt bad because there were people who, thanks to titanforging, got gear they didn’t deserve.
I read many threads during Legion by raiders complaining that after having spammed mythic+ until they had better than mythic ilvl perfectly itemized gear, they didn’t get any upgrades from mythic raiding.
And the solution was, of course, “Remove LFR!”
I have no sympathy for anyone who screamed endlessly that they wanted titanforging to be removed in order to stick it to casuals (and yes, we did read this commonly) and now has brought about Ionforging.
You got what you wanted. Own it.
And yes, the game will be harder. The game will be retuned at all difficulty levels to incorporate the new corrupted gear paradigm.
Admittedly I have skimmed this thread but I have talked to a lot of the posters in here previously and it isn’t at all what they are saying. Like not even close.
And the game won’t be more or less difficult because of forging. It will be more or less difficult because of tuning. You realise that emerald nightmare was not tuned for people having farmed m+ and so it was cleared crazy fast right? Then they bumped up the tuning of raids after that to account for it. Essentially forcing people to spam m+ to see success in raid. (Talking mythic here)
So someone actually answers you, it shouldn’t. Though blizz has be known to screw up balancing, content has been getting designed around tf Existing for years. Now its getting designed around horror forging.
Realistically content shouldnt be any harder just because tf was replaced.
Yeah. Bring back actual PvP gear. Vanilla isn’t really even a part the discussion since they moved away from that model a long time ago. You want to actually be able to fight Mythic geared players? Sounds like they need to bring back the WoD scaling to PvP gear.
What’s more that you think you should do? You cleared the raid and got the gear? There shouldn’t be anything to look forward to past that since your guild isn’t stepping into Mythic. At the most it should WF 10 ilvls. Heroic pieces have no business titanforging to be just as good as Mythic.
When I raid, I don’t give a damn about my own personal progression. I see it as another night I get to hang out with my guildies and have a good time. That’s what I look forward to. On any difficulty