Immediately since benthic effects are only in nasjatar
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TIME!
As with flying this is an issue of time. If thereās a world quest to kill buffalo bill how long will it take a fresh 120 to kill him? How long will it take a M raider to kill him? Now letās take a person like me 
When there is a gold emissary up I do it on all my applicable 120s of which I have 46. If it takes me exactly 1 minute to kill 4 buffalo bills on a fresh 120 thatās 3 hours. Now if Iām rocking a bunch of TF gear and bring the kill down to 30 seconds it will only take 1.5 hours. 1.5 hours * however many gold emissaries are up over the course of an xpac is days of time. Time I could spend writing comments like this 
or doing stuff I enjoy in game.
More gear is always better because it speeds everything up.
I honestly canāt figure out if you are trolling or not. Usually I think I have a good radar for it but Iām honestly on the fence on this one.
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how would it be trolling? I do have 46 120s, about to be more since I just hit exalted with 7th legion today 
Proudmoore admiralty soon and Iāll get around to mechagnomes and vulpera eventually. And I do the gold emissaries when they are up.
So you think that a mythic raider saves time by raiding mythic then killing the world mobs vs you just killing them? Wow
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To be clear youāre asking me if I think mythic raiders save time because they kill faster? Of course they do. Letās use another example. Letās take the worlds fastest leveler and give him 2 toons. 1 Fresh 120 and 1 M geared 120 from the 8.3 raid, which do you think will get to 60 faster in Shadowlands.
As someone who has wiped +500 times on one boss, I can say that this mentality is completely inaccurate. (Not saying you have it btw)
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Now you are moving the goal posts your initial point was that you need fear to do emmesayies faster right? Mythic raider spend generally 6-10 hours a week raiding. Use that time and be donāt before they even startā¦
Oh and thatās not counting time they spend getting pearls, crafting, farming mats, hitting training dummies, reading guides, analysing logs etc.
Well, of course, assuming you are doing WQs where gear matters. Of course you donāt need gear if you are doing turtles lol. Iām not moving any goal posts lol
leveling was just
I think what you are saying here is that Mythic raiders spend more time getting that gear? Iām not sure why youāre saying this to me Iām not arguing against that. All Iām saying is āmore gear makes everything fasterā including WQs, so it is a valid desire for a person to want higher ilvl gear even if all they do is open world content.
You guys are getting off topic. Sure higher ilvl helps you do world quests faster.
Destroying gear progression for the entire game so you can kill a few boars faster is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
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So per a new interview with Ion
- Titan/Warforging has been on their radar for removal for a while
- Corruption is just BFA (shocking)
- Titan/Warforging will not be in Shadowlands, but they are going to be doing something with gear that is different than what we currently have.
Source: https://www.millenium.us.org/guide/10782.html
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Thank the lord.
Thatās all I was saying 
Iām a simple man, thereās no need to attempt any deep thought exercises from my comments I try to say exactly what I mean without any trickery.
Iām not calling for anything to be destroyed or changed, I was just giving a reason to why someone who only does open world content would want or āneedā high ilvl gear.
BUT 
Now that Iāve thought about it, how would it affect raiders if people who donāt do high end content had similar gear to them?
I think the issue here is not so much people have the same ilevel as if you have consistent gearing options across the board that can potentially give equivalent to raid gear you just raid less really.
Like if I could get Mythic Raid equivalent gear through World Quests why would I bother even attempting to Mythic Raid? Obviously an extreme example, but it is what we see with a lot of M+ complaints is that people just hit a high ilevel with M+ then raid less because the gear incentive is gone.
I donāt personally like raiding as the sole pinnacle PvE activity, but I can see if I was a raider how annoying itād be to feel like doing LFR/M+/Emissaries etc just because RNG might bless you. Maybe youād skip that trinket WQ but if it upgrades 15 levels then itās a huge upgrade so you do it and get disappointed it doesnāt, however if you didnāt do it you feel annoyed the potential upgrade was there.
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I was never really into gear, I raided just because I enjoyed raiding but I know to some people that gear is a large part of it. And I know this feeling
Maybe youād skip that trinket WQ but if it upgrades 15 levels then itās a huge upgrade so you do it and get disappointed it doesnāt, however if you didnāt do it you feel annoyed the potential upgrade was there.
I stopped raiding in legion but before I did there was a trinket WQ in suramar, forgot what it was called, devilsaur shock baton? I think that was really good on its own but of course even when you had it you still would do the WQ ājust in caseā it upgrades. I hate the ājust in caseā an upgrade happens aspect of gearing.
I think Legion legendaries pre-wakening encapsulate the argument against titanforging very clearly. You feel obligated to do content that has a high chance to not reward you anything because it has a slight chance it might reward you something.
Because for a lot of players the draw of an MMO is this.
Get gear -> do harder content
Get even better gear -> do even harder content
Get even better gear -> do even more harder content
This is a progression path. Titanforging breaks this.
4 Likes
whatās wrong with people getting ahead of you? Thatās what progression is. Not everything has to be equal
Introducing Shadowforging, which is totally a different system! 
Honestly, that is my fear, that the ānew systemā will be new in name only.
We had Thunderforging all the way back in MoP, but i donāt recall nearly the same complaints about it. However, I believe Thunderforged items were capped at 5(?) item levels and were only available in raids. Seems like a similar cap on the forge-of-the-expac items would solve a lot of issues, so that, for example, a normal item could Shadowforge from ilvl 515 to ilvl 522, but never all the way up to heroic 530. It would still give people something to chase, without to possibility of invalidating the next level of difficulty entirely.
I donāt really know if Corruption is going to solve things the way Ion was selling in his recent interview, itās just going to change chasing pure ilvl to chasing that ideal corruption affix.