All I did was put a baseline item level on the current content. BFA’s rewards aren’t designed for ilvl156, or 200, it’s build around 370 at this time. (And no, it’s not 385 – those are scaled rewards. Make a fresh 120 and those Emissary caches are certainly not 385.) I think there were 355, which again, is lower than the baseline I set because it would make an even larger ratio. Even going from 385 to 425, 40 ilvls, is quite a lot. That’s 40 / 15 (267%).
Lol. Garrisons during WOD ruined the economy. Gold-inflated gold to insane levels and we’re still feeling the effects today. Material costs, the shear lack of gold generation on quests and the insane costs for a Bonus Roll token – WOD caused it. Garrisons in particular caused it.
Overly-generous rewards. That’s all Garrisons were. And BFA is doing the same thing.
Nothing game breaking or substantial as far as gear goes. You could actually argue that the gold income was game breaking and you might have a point with that path.
During WOD, lots of AOTCs were bought. Lots of CM carries were bought as well. WOD was basically “you were carried” expansion. It won’t show up on wowprogress and stuff (due to guild completions being a thing), there’s probably a metric layering around somewhere.
Effectively giving away gear and such made existing metrics (Item Level) unreliable. Players resorted to tools, such as IO scores, as a way to weed out people who were clearly not worth their time.
It had a very negative effect on the social climate of the game. That’s what happens when you give players something they didn’t really earn – other players don’t trust them and try harder to exclude them.
And saying a 1 increase to 10 is a 10% increase or that an increase from 385 to 425 is a 10% increase is one way of talking about the increase, saying it’s a 367% increase over the standard is another. Woo math! You’re still pushing fallacious garbage because you know you don’t have a leg to stand on.
You still haven’t explained why you used Item Level 1 as your baseline. You made a meaningless assessment of item levels. You don’t have a baseline to work from. If you want to argue that 385 to 425 is a 10% increase in player performance (which would be A LOT for a single item), then go ahead.
As it stands, you only said 425/385 = 110%. Sure. But what’s your point? You’re literally saying 425/385=110%. Which is true, but without context, it’s meaningless.
Oh sure, lets just ignore all the context of the discussion and try to use math to come up as big of a number possible while talking about the difference between the expected (10 McNuggets, 385 ilvl item) and what one receives (11 McNuggets and 425 ilvl item) with a big number while pretending that a big number matters. Either you’re not smart enough to understand that the number doesn’t matter because it’s all different ways to talk about the difference between the two numbers listed above, or you’re hoping I’m not smart enough to understand that a big number doesn’t matter and that you can “win” the argument by intentionally arguing about it. I’m a firm believer it’s the latter because you have demonstrated repeatedly that you aren’t interested in being intellectually honest in this discussion. Sorta like this post, where you pretend there isn’t any context that was already given (hell, that you gave, that I used). lol
I don’t know I can’t say I saw the negative effect while playing Draenor myself.
Plus, I don’t care how people block others from doing content. It is all the same no matter if you use ilvl, raider io, armory information, or specific gear it all amounts to the same thing: Blocking people from group content is a thing and has always been a thing.
Jokes aside, hindsight is 20/20; players get smarter and more clever each year. WOD was the first expansion that really just gave players everything for free, essentially. BFA is trending that way.
Thanks for the chat. Even if we disagree, it’s nice to see a different point of view.
Nah, I said 10pc is more like 370, because it’s a good baseline to use.
And if someone got a 13pc out of 10pc roll, congrats to them. (385 out of a 370)
And if someone got a 20pc out of a 10pc roll, congrats to them, but feels a bit generous to hand that many McNuggets. (420 out of a 370)
If you start out with 13pc and roll a 16pc, that’s the same chance as going from a 10pc to a 13pc, and I’m okay with that. It’s a rare bonus, but it’s achievable and still feels good to get.
If you start with a 18pc and roll that into a 20pc, that’s even more common than going from 10pc to 13pc. And that is totally fine with me.
But I’ll stress it again, if the bonus is too big, it feels overly-generous and I dislike that.
Is this a non-troll reply? You are okay with doing the same amount of work as other people and having RNG carry you higher just because you were lucky?
This is actually sad to even read… and it’s coming from an employee lmao
Yes, I understand. You dislike that lower ilvl stuff from invasions creeps up into the range of rewards from higher difficulties. You look at 370’s or 385’s and see the sheer possibility that it can forge to 425 and you pop a blood vessel in your forehead because you think it’s overly generous. I see it and realize that the average player isn’t going to ever get a 425 from any source let alone one from a 370 or 385 and I’m happy for them for getting a lucky forge.
Are you unfamiliar with what “the average player” means? It doesn’t mean one cherry picked example among millions of players that doesn’t even forge to 425. What, exactly, in that anecdote contradicts what I said? You hate to tell me what? That I’m right? lol. How does that post demonstrate the average player is pulling 425’s from content they’re doing due to forges? Oh, that’s right, it doesn’t. Are you getting sleepy? Maybe a little caffeine would do you good. You’re making even less sense than you do normally.
Whether or not it’s overly generous is subjective. It’s not factual. And your opinion isn’t one the devs share nor do I believe the bulk of the population cares. And I’m happy for that
Guaranteed high-level rewards ensure you need a stupid amount of luck on your RNG bonuses. This devalues content you’d normally play at (given it’s less than 400 for the typical rewards). In addition, hopefully the item has at least 1 ideal secondary. (Getting a 425 ring with your worst stats would generate mixed feelings).
Plus, the bonuses (+30 and higher) are incredibly rare. Limited those to just +15 and it wouldn’t have much impact on the system, but it would completely remove mega-jackpots.
You didn’t even need AOTC to get a heroic cache. You needed 15 boss kills on normal. 15 heroic kills would give you a mythic cache.
I don’t really see the problem with these rewards though. Getting a heroic piece once every 2 weeks doesn’t break the game. Before this sort of thing was around, people would just pay to get carried through heroic raids (which was and still is very easy). GDKP runs were a big thing in expansions prior.
I mean, if wanna play that game again, the base item level for that trinket is 360. It rolled +60. That’s higher than the +55 from 370 to 425.
It doesn’t happen often. So, removing it shouldn’t impact anything, right?
Sure, just like BFA is a worse version of Legion. Subjective, or factual? Doesn’t matter. Perception does matter, though.
A few of the devs I’ve talked to have very different opinions regarding a variety of topics, including Master Loot and Titanforging. No one I’ve talked with likes how Master Loot is completely gone. And the responses on Titanforging were very “but it feels good, right?” It’s one of the only topics they’ve actively not talked about – and they usually talk about whatever comes up.
FWIW, these are folks on class design, systems, engineering, and QA/UX. QA/UX was universally against the current systems.
