Lol? I didn’t say I was the majority. I said you weren’t. Are you that simple? Hell, I’ve said numerous times in this thread that I don’t believe I’m in the majority, I’m just not trying to crap all over them like you are.
Let’s move back to the discussion without personal attacks.
Thanks.
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Just got a titanforge from 360 to 420, and felt much the same way. Thread here:
I don’t disagree, but Vegas seems more your style.
My opinion with titanforging is it feels bad to get any piece of gear that isn’t titanforged,socketed, with leech/speed because it will always be the worst version of that piece of gear.
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You’re everything wrong with the game.
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There, there. Your insecurity is showing. You might want to tuck it back in, that is, if you have time in between searching for anyone that might have a piece of armor that you don’t approve of.
![:laughing:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/laughing.png?v=6" ":laughing:")
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I’m not sure which is sadder. The player who feels slighted when people who put in a pittance of effort gear up to a near similar level as the people who put in boat loads of effort. Or, the player who feels that he MUST be offered routine high level rewards for doing next to nothing in game or his entire game time is considered worthless.
Personally I find both player types to be silly, though while I always expect the former type… the latter type seems like the type of player who just shouldn’t be playing this game. If you MUST acquire heroic raid level rewards for doing next to nothing or your gone… Blizzard shoulda just said: Ok… Go. Sometimes it’s necessary to fire the customer. They actually aren’t always right.
My own personal beef with WF/TF is that it messes up my own characters progression. I don’t care at all what you or anyone else is wearing. I care about me. And right now, between the crapton of RNG reward systems on top of the RNG of WF/TF… I have no idea where my next upgrade is going to come from.
Want an example? I killed M G’huun. The next week I got a TF from a warfront that I barely paid attention to. Upgrade. If you don’t see something wrong with that picture, then I don’t really know what to say.
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At least most of your reasons go beyond “That guy doesnt deserve it”.
So I can understand your reasoning to an extent. You are concerned about YOUR expectations and consistency of where and how you upgrade, fair enough.
All I will add is that Warfront max TF is so rare that it should not shrivel the berries of a lot of these Mythic+++ people that are so consumed by what Average Joe on the street corner is wearing for a belt.
Yup, warforging items with a combination of valor point upgrades, they did it in MoP ,and took it at the start of Warlords of Draenor. But then in a later minor patch during 6.2 they brought it back for Hellfire citadel, and you could upgrade the piece two times, and the legendary ring you could upgrade more.
I too would love to know why they took that concept of warforging with badge points out. I do not recall people really getting rallied up over it saying the system is bad as much as titanforging. If they did I want to see 5 or more good old post reference links about the community complaining they hated the warforging & valor upgrade concept in MoP, and in Warlords.
In fact I’m curious to see if there was any post references back then that liked the concept of warforged combined with valor. I might search that myself for fun. It Just that I have never seen a community get so worked up over how loot upgrading works before titanforging.
Well not at all. A base mythic raid piece would be better than normal titanforged piece
Agreed it’s rare to get a TF that high from WF. But we can’t just look at that in a vacuum. There are many sources of RNG high level gear all of which has the chance to TF. So while the chances that a single one of those sources will do so is low… the chances that at least one of those sources will do so is higher.
Look at my gear. Until last night (replaced one of them), I had 3 pieces of gear that were TF’d. That’s not rare. Rare is D2 legendaries (pre-dupe hack that is, I stopped playing when duping ruined the entire SoJ economy). Rare is old WoW legendaries. TF is not a rare occurence. It’s an uncommon one, but remains a part of the current gearing system.
I also don’t like that TF and RNG sockets have stripped away the concept of a defined upper limit of power. I can’t figure out what to actually pursue in terms of gear (aside from very specific trinkets and azerite), because for all I know I’ll receive a godforged item that (regardless of it’s stats) will be BiS unless I get insanely lucky with another godforge. This game has always been about RNG when it comes to gearing, it’s just that… that RNG stopped at the gear acquisition. Starting in MoP and now massively increased in Legion/BfA… RNG has snuck into both gear acquisition and the gear itself. A big part of the game for me, previously, was planning my characters path and figuring out what I needed to do to improve. Can I still do that? Yes-ish… But to me it often just all feels for naught.
I’d much prefer RNG go back to ending at the point of acquisition. Not of the gear itself. If it must be in the gear, then limit it. Don’t make it so that I can actually get gear that is literally better than M G’huun’s loot by killing 10 bears. That just feels cheap to me.
Edit: Having said all this, I feel I need to add my standard response in these threads. People. TF isn’t going anywhere… It achieves everything Blizzard wants regardless of whether we like it. It provides another never ending treadmill, it solves (in their eyes) the idea of bosses becoming guild breakers (just keep running the earlier bosses and eventually TF will see you through!), and last but definitely not least… It’s freaking easy as hell to implement with literally zero transparency to the players. Want to extend content? Tweak the RNG to drop less. People hitting walls? Tweak the RNG to drop more. All while we just sit here in the dark.
Sorry to be so cynical, but honestly… I’ve lost a lot of faith in Blizzard concerning this game over the years. I still love it and love the PvE content (and the people I’ve met) so that’s why I’m still here. But for gear… No. Gearing up for me is pulling as many slot machine levers as possible. That’s it.
If you don’t like TF enough, then vote with your wallet. Otherwise adapt, cause it isn’t going anywhere.
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" I can’t figure out what to actually pursue in terms of gear (aside from very specific trinkets and azerite), because for all I know I’ll receive a godforged item that (regardless of it’s stats) will be BiS unless I get insanely lucky with another godforge."
Why be hyperbolic? I can look at your gear see that ~10 pieces of gear have upgrades that you can probably acquire from mythic raiding just at a glance from ilvl. Which you’re already doing. And why would whether an item potentially forges matter at all? Take your Incandescent Sliver. A mythic version is just a straight up improvement over the heroic. If you get one that forges, awesome, good for you. How is that confusing? If you get a different trinket while pursuing a Mythic Incandescent Sliver that forges high enough that it sims better, awesome, good for you. How is that confusing? Except we know the answer, it’s not actually confusing at all. It’s just another contrived complaint.
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You’re going to evaluate one single snap shot of time from one character and base my entire gearing experience throughout BfA on it?
Why are you so determined to be combative (edit’d from “right” as that was the wrong word) on this. You already established above that this is about feeling and I’m giving you feelings on the matter. You can point out the objective measurements and tell me that I should be enjoying it because of them til your blue in the face. That’s basically blizzard’s way of saying “You think you do, but you don’t.” That doesn’t change the fact that my subjective evaluation of the system and how it has impacted my own characterS across the entire expansion.
I have repeatedly had TF throw my plans out the window. I already provided an example of receiving an upgrade from a WF right after I killed M G’huun. That should not happen in my eyes. Again, I don’t care about what you’re wearing. It’s self defeating to have character progress from content that I’m not paying attention to, over content that requires 110% effort.
Heck, I literally can’t even tell you what I’m wearing right now aside from my trinkets. That alone shows you how little I’m paying attention to what gear is and where it comes from.
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This, this right here. I can tell you pretty much what my level 29 twink in vanilla was wearing in gear to this day or my priest raiding in MC but now? I don’t know a single piece of gear by name save for maybe a trinket. I get gear now and it’s just a checklist and feels hollow, some classes BiS gear for their spec for raiding, doesn’t even come from the raid and i’d have to subject myself to M+ or PVP for it.
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I would like to add, that I don’t think TF is the only problem when it comes to this. Gearing in general has become very RNG. It used to be: Kill this boss to have a chance to get this gear. A large part of gearing has become: Do this task, to acquire a box, that can have almost literally any piece of gear in the game, which might WF/TF into something way stronger.
3 of my current pieces come from such boxes.
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I’m not telling you you should be enjoying it or that if you’re not enjoying forging you’re wrong. If you say you’re not a fan of forging, cool, awesome, you have an opinion on it. We all do, now we know yours. But if you try to explain why you don’t like it and you give us a fabricated issue, one that’s silly, pointing out that your complaint is contrived does not equivocate to me telling you that your opinion is wrong and mine is right. It just means your justification for it isn’t (in this case) honest.
Hell, you asked people to look at your character. I followed up on that. I tried to figure out how it was confusing, and the more I looked at it the more I realized your claim was entirely hyperbolic.
If you dislike that you plan for specific upgrades and get a random forge that is better, I mean, okay, that’s a complaint I can understand sorta. Simply getting an item that by itself is better and you see it as a problem doesn’t really compute to me. Moreso if the item isn’t your best stats but the forge is so good that you can’t pass that item up, which leaves your gameplay feeling off because, say, you’re not stacking haste when you want to. If that’s what you’re talking about, okay, I can understand where you’re coming from. That has happened to me a lot. I do find that annoying. It’s not, however, confusing.
But again, when we look, your complaint doesn’t equivocate to “this is confusing” like you pretended it is. It’s “I got this reward from content that doesn’t deserve to drop this reward.” I did like the bit where you parroted Preach’s argument about not knowing what gear you’re wearing. That was pretty good.
Except it’s not fabricated.
Because on tuesday I could easily receive a 415 conch that could arguably be better than the sliver with how much random stacking and player motions are required with BoD.
This has happened repeatedly throughout Legion on my 6 120 toons. If this happened 1 single time, then sure… hyperbolic. But repeatedly? No. It’s not hyperbolic to state that the pathway to upgrades has been at least muddied somewhat.
Not to mention that you haven’t even taken into consideration other forms of gear acquisition? You do realize that spam running M+ is a large part of the gearing scene yes? Also the completely random M+ weekly cache? How about when I received 420 pants from a random M+ (not weekly cache btw)? Do I have to go through every character and find TF’s that occured throughout their gear progression so that you can document every single time a TF has altered that characters progression path?
Are you starting to see why I’m saying that making a dedicated plan is a bit silly? Because my next piece could come from anywhere. There really isn’t a point to make a path. I just run heroic, run as much mythic as I can, and then do M+ as much as I can. At some point, I’ll probably get an upgrade from one of those sources. And I won’t even know what the upgrade is… I’ll just look to see if it has the stats I want and sim’s higher. I won’t even care what it is or where it came from. I also do emissaries for AP/WR and WFs (for the quest only). All of these are potential sources of gear upgrades.
Long story short, you can try to reduce my gearing path down to: Well obviously here’s your next upgrades. And I can point to my experience through all of Legion and BfA across 5-6 toons and go: Actually… no. At no point have I gone, that’s clearly where I need to go to get my next upgrade. As my next upgrade could actually come from running the difficulty lower.
For all you know, I’ll receive a 420 sliver from Heroic Opulence or a 415 socketed conch from my M+ cache.
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A +30 ilvl TF normal piece is exactly the same as a base mythic raid piece.
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I’d also like to add, that I think you misunderstood me in that first quote. I’m not saying that I can’t figure out what stats I need and how to look up which items have those stats. I’m saying that because of TF (along side other RNG systems in place), I have no idea where that actual item upgrade is going to come from.
This quote:
Better represents my point there. Not that I’m in anyway confused on how to gear up my character.
Well since I’ve been saying that since TF came to be in Legion… I’d say he parrotted me. I’ll let you go dig up the old forum posts. My characters were Myrdrahl, Trystis, and Fleek back then (at least the ones I posted on).