that is much more rare than a +15 titanforge piece, not a reliable way to get high ilvl gear.
That doesnât make what I said not true.
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I specifically quoted the issue I had with the statement wherein you were describing the system as confusing. Iâve (for the second time) quoted it above. I didnât take it out of context. I didnât misunderstand it. Your claim is just exaggeration to the point of dishonesty. Which is why I asked, âWhy be hyperbolic?â Deflecting to other things you said that I did not comment on and trying to apply what I said to those things is dishonest. Just fess up, itâs cool. You were being hyperbolic because you donât like forging and youâre trying to portray it in the worst possible light because it suits your bias. Itâs not like other people in this thread havenât done the exact same thing.
Then Iâm stating that I chose my words poorly there. I am not confused as to how to gear my character. If you give me a piece of gear, I can figure out whether it will be an upgrade or a downgrade. I can also figure out which items are supposed to be upgrades when I look at the dungeon journal.
My point was⌠My experience when it comes to gearing characters has not been: Look up which item to go for in the dungeon journal. It has been: All content within a +15 TF range contains potential upgrades, so itâs actually relatively logical to run said content. Hence why I have multiple +10 mythic upgrades, and until recently had a few normal TF pieces that just recently got replaced.
The point is, the path to how to gear a character in terms of what content to run is muddied.
And none of that changes my point. You can ask yourself if itâs worthwhile to try to farm for specific pieces of gear. Thatâs up to you. But Iâve run Shrine for a friend repeatedly until he got his Conch at a forge level he was happy with. We target specific pieces when we run M+. One of the first things we ask in my M+ group is whether or not someone needs something from any of our available keys. Yes, itâs not the same as the days where we had a single BiS list each tier with a handful of A, B, C for each slot in sequence. Now itâs more complicated. Itâs more complicated because theyâre providing alternate progression paths beyond just raid or die like it used to be. And here you are doing all content and complaining about it. If you donât want 410+ chest rewards from m+ then donât do them. But certainly donât complain that theyâre muddying the water after you choose to do them lol.
Or you know, it removes achievements and progress in the game. Pull the LEVER KRONK
This is also why I canât wait for Classic, no more of this handout BS and Warforged crap. Itâs actual reward for input.
Sigh⌠This is why I hate text conversations. You lose all forms of nuance when it comes to communication. I canât reply now, but will do later with a more full explanation. In essence though, we agree with each other a lot more than you think.
First off, itâs I COULDNâT care less. Itâs a pet peeve of mine, and when youâre making a critical post it detracts from the impact when you mess something up.
So if the reward isnât as high as you think it should be, or if someone else getâs a higher one, is your âskillâ diminished?
Okay, so if youâre willing to acknowledge that wasnât well written to communicate what you meant Iâm good with moving past it.
I donât agree that itâs relatively logical to run all content within a +15 TF range. That leaves a ton of content that could potentially forge high enough to be the same ilvl as heroic gear, which means it could be better if the stat allocation is better than what you currently have even if the ilvl is the same. If youâre going out of your way to do all possible content that could forge that high, youâre driven beyond the intent of forging as has been explained by the developers. In short, thatâs a you problem, not a game problem.
Though, thatâs a perfectly reasonable complaint I think, even if itâs about you and not about the game. âI feel like I have to do all this stuff thatâs below par because it could be better if it forges.â But the game shouldnât be designed in such a way that it limits opportunities for people that the content is designed for because people that itâs not designed for canât help trying to fish for forges all the while complaining about how they hate doing the content (this last part is not specifically you but other people here have made this argument).
But the path to gear a character in terms of what content to run hasnât been muddied. Itâs been intentionally expanded to include content outside of raiding. Thatâs a design choice. That leads to another complaint we see here. How did that guy phrase it, oh yesâŚâno lyfers shouldnât be able to do content outside the raid and beat me!â Again, I understand the complaint even if Iâm adamantly opposed to limiting progression paths back to raid or die. That era is gone and should stay dead for the same reason as above. Itâs cross content designed for a different audience. Heâs (and those like him) just mad other people are doing content and getting comparable rewards. Thatâs not a reason to remove it.
That doesnât change the fact that it does happen and way too frequently. Just because youâre having an unlucky streak doesnât mean it isnât happening. For example my priest, who has only done Normal DazarâAlor casually with my guild this tier/pvp season got 420 socket gloves from normal jadefire, she also got 425 ring from M+. This diminishes the value, even if itâs on my alt, of the work and effort that I put into my main or anyone else who raids Mythic. There needs to be harsher restrictions on how how Titanforging works, there needs to be caps that lock off how high each type of content can go, Normal should not be able to pass Heroic baseline. Heroic should not be able to pass Mythic baseline. M+ should not be able to go past Mythic baseline. It diminishes the value of gearing, it diminishes the effort of raiding, and it diminishes the time investment of high end Raiding/PvP players
In the words of a different wise thread, wouldnât you be pissed off if you went to mcdonalds and paid for a 4 piece nuggets and someone else also did the same but it âMcForgedâ into a 20 piece for the same price you paid for your 4 nuggets? I know I would be, because that isnât FAIR.
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Ooooooorrrr maybe youâre just having a lucky streak?
Do you get upset when youâre in Vegas and you put a quarter in a slot machine and someone does the same thing next to you, and you get nothing and they win $300? Do you get angry when the person in front of you in line wins a game piece for a free McNugget upgrade on their coffee cup? Do you seethe with rage every time you buy lottery tickets and some guy a few towns over does too and they win a million dollars and you win $5?
There is no person at Blizzard sitting in a chair, pointing at players, going âYou, but not youâ. Not winning something through random chance, by definition, is not something that is worth being angry about. Random chance is random chance. Random chance is never fair, itâs justâŚrandom.
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A 4pc McForges into a 20pc? Thats like saying I can get a Titanforged 2000ilvl pc from Heroic BoD⌠If you need to grossly embelish in order to make your point then it probably isnt a valid point to begin with. More like the guy next to you got 4.05 Mcnuggets.
All this gear, forged or not, is inevitably vendored. The raid/Dungeon/RBG should be what your playing for, not ilvlâs. Why are people so angry/jealous be someone else gets lucky? Do you have any idea how much you would have to run normal, for WF/TF, to be as geared as someone who runs Heroic? It makes no sense that some people are unable to be happy for someone else that got lucky and just enjoy the game.
Considering itâs the norm, no Iâm not having a lucky streak. This is the norm of the game, thatâs how you have several players geared past Heroic Dazarâalor gear without ever stepping into Mythic or 2100+ PvP
So youâre comparing it to Gambling. Iâm not, an mmorpg is not supposed to be a gambling simulator, itâs not supposed to be driven entirely by luck or RNG.
It INVALIDATES the time and effort that people who enjoy the game putting in the work to earn the gear from Mythic Raiding or High End PvP, Iâm not sure why you canât grasp your head around how being lucky invalidates the work others people put in.
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The only way it âinvalidatesâ anything is if you need that ilvl disparity to feel good about the time you invested. At which point you might want to look in the mirror and take a second to assess your life. Does a new tier invalidate your âworkâ? What about expansions?
But then again, you used a ridiculous McForge argument. Do you ever go to McDonalds and they take your money and give you nothing? Do they tell you, âSo sorry, no drops today!â as theyâre handing you back your card? No? So why use garbage arguments?
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Youâre being a bit obtuse. If you want to play âthatâ game, McDonalds is deterministic. WoW is RNG.
âMcForgingâ is literally how Titanforging works. Same effort in, possible different outcomes. You can get back in line and pay again for another go.
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The comparison is ignorant at best.
âMcForgingâ is not literally how Titanforging works. Itâs how the game works. Itâs how the game has worked since it started for PvE boss content as well as any other game ever that uses drop percentages. There has never been any guarantee that the outcome was going to be the same, not in vanilla, not in bc, wrath, mists, cata, wod, legion, nor in BfA. You could literally do the boss a hundred times and never see a drop and I could walk in with my raid do it once and walk out with the thing you wanted. Thatâs called randomness. Itâs not new.
In fact, your point is exactly why the comparison is stupid. There was never an expectation that youâd get the same outcome. There is when you go to McDonalds.
That is exactly how WoW operated in ye olde days. You got you item, you no longer needed to grind for it. It was a single layer of RNG. (âDid the item drop?â).
That is VERY different from todayâs game. (âDid the item drop? And did it roll a decent bonus to be considered an upgrade?â) Thereâs two layers of RNG. THat second layer is what people dislike. A small bonus is totally fine; no one cares if it was a +10 or +15. Itâs those jackpots worth +30 people dislike.
The âguaranteeâ from the past was once you got it, you got it. You didnât need to keep farming after the fact. God forbid you replace that item within a couple weeks after farming for months.
McForging a 10pc into a 11pc? Totally fine. Turning a 10pc into a 20pc? Itâs annoying.
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