Well, in some cases, they might not have been doing that well in the first place. Like say they were progressing, but due to gear, skill, or even luck were say taking 5 minutes to kill even the weakest mob on the floor.
Unfortunately, due to a certain group of players, the rest of us will have to choose between exploring and moving on. It is my hope that they at least put “safe zones” around the merchants and when people are checking anima powers. I’d also hope for temporary buffs, possibly from killing mobs, that allow one to explore a bit before the torment strikes again. Liek for the eye one? why not a cloak that hides you for x amount of time?
They are saying they don’t want to make it timed but adding the timer in the same breath. Thank you for sharing the post none the less.
What it comes down to is they need to make end game progression not tied to this content if they want to put it out as advertised and make the things that drop purely cosmetic. The only reason a purely efficient group would matter in content like this is if it were tied to legendary progression ect. If it’s all cosmetic base then i say if players want to wait 60 minutes to get their cds up every time freaking let them but if it’s homogenized into raiding / pvp progression you can’t have that.
They need to realize that if they add any sort of timer-like system to Torghast, when it’s meant to be a numerous floor-spanning gameplay experience that could take over an hour in some cases, they will be messing with peoples’ ability to run Torghast the way they should be allowed to run it.
Will some people wait 10 minutes between pulls for Bloodlust? Yes, but not everyone is going to want to or have the time to do so, and as Torghast continues into the expansion, less people will be doing that. The highest tier players willing to perform extremes should not dictate to the devs how the gameplay in Torghast should be designed for people not on that level of play.
I think you need to look into how Torghast works and their goals with it. The first 10 floors are like a normal dungeon and not supposed to really be anything that challenging. These torments are in the main bulk of engagement.
Why can’t they simply tie the cooldowns with the combat.
If you are in combat with you hitting something and something hitting you then your cooldown is ticking and refreshing.
If you are out of combat and simply exploring then your cooldown’s are locked and won’t refresh until you hit a resting area or enter combat once more.
This solves the problem of people waiting on cooldowns without forcing a specific pace on anyone.
You can go a step forward and link these torments to ONLY when your in combat and have that work well as a way to make the mob’s harder without pressing you into any pace.
don’t dodge the question, in fact let me answer it for you. What happens if one can’t progress due to the increase in difficulty that is scaled based on a TIMER? they get kicked out of the instance.
You don’t know what you want, we know what you want…
it’s only been like two years.
It’s not the false advertisement that makes this change bad they’ve completely changed the design of the game play which is what MADE the advertisement false to begin with.
on the surface i might agree with you on this except again it’s forcing players into pigeon holing their routes / strategies on how they would approach what was supposed to be free form content. The timer has to go if this tower is going to be experienced as originally intended.
Would have been nice if they had mentioned alternatives to debuff timers like limiting how many big spells people can cast per level.
As long as a mechanism is in place that the players are aware of that makes them “move along”, there will be players turning on players, especially in PUGs, when someone needs to take a break, and Blizzard can’t “balance” their way out of that mindset of the players. It’ll interfere with one of their bullet points, “Intimidate casual players from playing Torghast altogether.”
the torments still force the pacing in combat or out it just means you have to combat faster than you normally would which is going to effect the pacing even if you can sit out of combat and strategize how you want to pull the mob.
because FUN DETECTED that’s why memes aside it’s because they tied end game progression into this tower and now they have to worry about their end game crazies who will run nearly a bazillion islands to grind AP and what those types of people will do to get ahead in the game.
I was about to say that would be impossible if they actually made the layouts random but then I remembered wowhead exists…so I can somewhat agree? Personally though, I wouldn’t be affected if that’s what I had to do because I enjoy making a plan and seeing it come together.
But effectively my idea would just make the mob’s harder and the space in between the fights would not be rushed. That is kind of what I am going for.
But I can scrap the torments idea if you like. To be honest I just really want the first part.
Yeah that part i agree with for the most part on the surface it makes sense and could def help resolve the CD problem they claim they are trying to address here but the timers on the torments scales gotta go for sure.
I personally think the whole downtime waiting for CDs is utter bullsh’t. What they are afraid of is that players are gonna get over Torghast and it gonna burnout. But rather than putting effort into creating more anima powers each patch they gonna limit players exposure and experience with the current.
again Blizz trying to cut corners and not put effort. First, we get the whole “anima powers are not spec specific but class specific because we want to bring back class fantasy” bullsh’t because they rather make anima powers for 12 classes and not 37 specs (and even with only 12 classes they are not unique to each both mages and priests have a rat explosion build) and know we get this sh’t.
if Blizz is not hyped and motivated for there own game why should we?
The first 10 floors are also where the weekly stuff is, anything beyond that is for extras.
Just like a lot of M+ runners think the main engagement for M+ are in the keys after the ilvl cap (+16 and higher)
I have seen a lot here say they will not even set foot into Torghast if there is this timer. I think a more accurate angel if trying to get Blizzard to change might be “I won’t do Torghast more then what is needed for the weekly”.
I suggested something similar, only with the debuff still there on the off chance Blizzard is set on having it in.
Sorry, all that a timer does in some instances is make the point they get kicked come faster. What happens if one progresses too far due to cheesing content, they hit the brick wall and get kicked from the instance.
Lines like this are why we can’t come to consensus. I think casuals will still be able to do well in Torghast, but lazy players? bad players? They will have issues.
The thing is casuals can still hit a point where gear and/or skill can see them through a lot. The ones that conflate casual with lazy/bad will likely not.
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
By and large, your failures in Torghast are measured in deaths, not with a timer.
this is warcraft thREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEforged all over again and i’m done arguing sensibly about it because obviously blizzard doesn’t care to design sensibly so why should we fREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEaking bother.
You missed my point (or I yours), as it has nothing to do with gear and/or being good/bad.
Casuals avoid being pressured, its interferes with their enjoyment during their recreational time. They NEED as much player agency as they can get their hands on, they don’t want to be forced to do content they do not like, etc.
Any form of pressure to keep moving will turn off casuals because, right or wrong, in their heads they’ll be bracing for that first time they have to get up to answer the door and get their Amazon delivery that some ahole in group will start chewing them out for doing so, because the ahole sees what they are doing as a job and not playing a video game.
If everybody is over-geared and four can handle the next group of trash, then the ahole won’t complain and the casual won’t worry. But that’s end-game we are talking about.
In the primary dungeons they weren’t there. But there was 2 rush scenarios in the final dungeons added with ICC. That being the Ice Cavern in Pit of Saron and the “oh my god the Lich King is chasing us” in Halls of Reflection scenario.
The 2nd example that I put forward is a form of a timer. Quickly kill the trash mobs before the Lich King gets to us is a form of a ticking timer.
Of course the timers were more present in Raids of course and dungeons only have a very miniscule amount of scenarios like that out of all the Wrath dungeons.