The biggest problem I have with timers is that they reduce my ability to explore. To take in the scenery and to figure out the puzzles myself instead I have to pre-research everything and rush through it my first time because its when I’m most underpowered.
Only when I have done the content countless times do I get the time to explore but by then I’m sick of the content.
The best advise I could give to the developers is to let players play the way they want to play in the fashion they want to do so instead of making them play the way you want them to.
And if you do need to come up with a solution to frankly a very corner case situation do something more elegant that solves the problem instead of creating more. It would have been easy to front load the rewards and after a certain point that you decide there would be diminishing rewards. People who wanted to continue on could do so because they want to for the challenge while no one is forced to and people could explore.
Plays at relevant timestamp.
This is whats going to be missing from the Torgahst experince now.
I think the problem more is they keep thinking that speedrunning is a good thing. Speedrunning is cancerous garbage that only gets a pass for old games because really how do you make those challenging unless you’re trying to do “world records” to clear? It’s bad enough that Classic has gotten speedrunning culture infecting it.
Speedrunning doesn’t make content fun. it sucks the fun out because it makes it a damn competition with everyone else as “well I cleared it in 40 minutes, how long did it take you?” sort of things.
Yeah, I can understand where you are coming from for sure I’m the same way. Love to explore and not have to research everything ahead of time and plan my routes out before entering.
Who knows, maybe the time won’t be stupid short once you start.
You guys seem to think people are worried about the difficulty when it’s the pacing and social aspects that timers bring that’s the problem. Islands, M+, and Visions aren’t hard because of the timer aspects they are just annoying. People don’t have to try it to know how a timer makes them feel. If you want to be immersed in an exploration dungeon pacing a scaling debuff will break that immersion to a feeling of having to rush.
This is what we can hope for. I sort of understand not wanting you to take 10 minutes in between every pull (although again I don’t see why this matters in solo content). But the timer needs to be VERY generous to not want you to rush to the end. That will ruin it more than anything else. I already feel that way in Visions right now (with a low level cloak), I can’t actually take the time to do anything or see the corrupted area because my sanity drops so fast that I need to make a beeline towards the boss to clear it.
That’s fine, and I’m not saying there won’t be issues. I do however think that Torghast needs timers. The games that Torghast is based off of all require a timer and for good reason.
For the record I do not like the idea of a timer either, but I also understand from the Developers perspective that they probably do not want players sitting around for hours waiting on cool downs to keep climbing the tower.
Spending All this time and money on other parts of the game only to have players focus on one aspect of it (the tower) would seem to diminish all the Developers hard work.
But you’re ignoring the fact that you would have to sit there doing nothing for an hour for it to make a dent in your performance big enough to be noticeable. It’s not going to feel like a timer. You’re not going to be sitting there in the floor trying to get it done as fast as possible so you don’t lose that extra 1% dmg. You and your mate might say “ahh Jim we’ve been in here for an hour now, this last boss is gonna be a little tougher, better focus up”
I would have loved to take the time in visions to figure out were all the rares are and how to solve the potion puzzle myself as well as the mail box rare mount and tactics to bosses like Rexxar.
Instead because of the time investment to get into visions I can’t afford to waste them and once in there I have 0 time even at a 15 cloak to really explore anything.
Honestly I’m a bit tired of having to watch multiple guides on every kind of content to be able to run it efficiently instead of being able to figure it out myself.
Yeah this attitude is toxic as hell and needs to die. It’s bad enough in M+. it doesn’t need to be everywhere that you need to watch the “optimal route” to do anything in a meaningful capacity.
Islands are another thing I think that had tremendous opportunity and was completely missed. The timer, the “against other faction” nonsense, the fact the best way to run it was to just what, kill rares for the Azerite? Etc. just ruined it and made them worthless. If they had been actual expeditions where you might have found cool cosmetic things they would have been enjoyable. I think I did like maybe three? They were just so boring and useless.
The weird thing is that Ion supposedly agrees with us according to an interview he gave.
“There were no rules. There was no right or wrong way to play. Just you and your pet wolf, as a hunter, trying to make your way in the world and figure things out from there,” says Hazzikostas.
“Today, people are almost trained to min-max,” says Hazzikostas, referring to the play strategy of minimizing weaknesses and maximizing strengths. “The community pushes people in that direction, especially socially. Even if it’s not your preferred playstyle, the people who may want you in your group or may not, are holding you to some of those standards. Once it’s knowable, you’re expected to know.” The answer to any mystery is a Google search away.
Yet for some reason instead of rewarding exploration they make more content that will require research. It is not the community that is entirely to blame, it is decisions like these.
With respect to Ion I don’t believe that he really feels it’s bad because he’s part of the reason why it’s so prevalent in WoW due to Elitist Jerks. But yeah it is odd that they claim they want to return to that but push the opposite in the game by making everything so tightly tuned that you need to research/min-max to the nines. All of the stuff they’ve added since Legion has been pushing min/maxing and “do your research” to the forefront so it is a bit laughable that they claim they don’t want it.
Yet they could solve both issues by limiting bloodlust and other big cooldowns a certain amount each floor. Timers aren’t needed, they are used as a lazy fix.
You keep missing the point, it’s absolutely not about performance it’s about the pacing and the mental implications that go with it. The debuff could be non-performance related, draining copper for every second you are in there and still feel bad because you are literally getting punished for doing anything that isn’t gogogo. Perhaps you have an unbreakable mental fortitude but the stacking debuffs are going to be affecting the way players behave and react. Like that clip that was posted above, players would feel guilty stopping to admire the art for a minute and talk to their friends about it, same with certain characters stuck in Torghast you couldn’t stop and have a discussion about it after finding them without a constant reminder that you are being punished for it.
The same guy stopping and admiring everything in that clip was doing a vision yesterday and only just for the first time went in a building in the shaw district. He refused to explore the content with the timer even though he greatly admires exploration and in Torghast is deep in the exploration. There absolutely is huge downsides to timers and so many other options to fix the bloodlust problem.
When I asked Hazzikostas what sort of MMORPG he most wanted to exist if he wasn’t working on World of Warcraft , he paused for a second to think. “Something that surprises me, anew with the promise of unexplored spaces,” he said. “One of the biggest things that’s exciting about the concept of an MMO is going into an unexplored, undiscovered world.
It may be the case but it wasn’t what he said. Here was the relavant quote I missed.
Then why would you add timers to remove the ability to explore the unknown?
This is how I know that you have zero clue what you’re talking about and would prefer to whine instead. Tanks and healers are the absolute EASIEST roles to 5 mask visions as. If you can’t do it, that’s entirely on you and maybe you should look up some class guides at that point.
Blizzard: we want players to take their time and explore for bonus rewards and buffs
Also blizzard: we want to punish players for taking too long by giving them stacking debuffs that make floors harder the longer you stay on them
Like seriously what do you want for us to take our time, explore and have fun or just rush through it and be forced to minmax into a playstyle that we probably will not enjoy
Honestly lost all hope I had for this expansion at this point might just play Minecraft Dungeons, Assassin’s Creed Valhalla, cyberpunk 2077 and whatever other interesting games come out
Blood DKs can literally pull nearly entire areas and easily AoE them down, particularly if they have the N’zoth sword, and “Healing Priests” can do upwards of 30k DPS as Holy and 50k as Disc. Wanna try again?
Then why would you add timers to remove the ability to explore the unknown?