This is not true. We’ve always had these things since day one.
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that’s just not even true
“come to the bank for inspection”
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I used that term talking about careers outside the game. I also wasn’t talking about every raider in all of WoW… lol
When I am watching a boss guide I don’t care about their personality… I care if they know the mechanics.
That sounds almost like… "Pay to Win! "? Say it ain’t so!
Please tell me how people haven’t had gear to judge each other on since day one. Or how DPS meters weren’t used in Molten Core. Or how people didn’t judge each other based off of having their epic mount, etc.
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Getting rid of these systems wouldn’t solve the issue. No matter what game or community you go to, there are jerks telling you how to play or you are not good enough and you should just quit. Some have more than others sure but they are there if you look hard enough.
I don’t think taking away X or Y thing does much as the people who do these types of things just find another way to tell you “Hey, we don’t want you playing with us.” or “Jump through these hoops to prove yourself to us.”
looking back at old wow like
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We always had all of the things you listed. maybe not in their currant form but there has always been some way of comparing ourselves to other players. Elitism is inevitable in a game like wow, as old as wow. This game has been broken down to its basic maths We are always going to know what is good and what is bad and that is always going to lead to a separation. Removing tools wont change that.
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yep, that’s always how these discussions go.
“if you’re sick of ‘elitism’, lead the charge. form your own groups and invite everyone with not even a glance at ilvl or rio or logs or spec or covenant.”
“… no way, i might end up with a group full of baddies”
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I don’t disagree with any of this. It’s human nature to do whatever you can to increase your odds of success, no matter what it is.
My issue has always been Blizzard focusing on the wrong damn thing.
Rather than giving players the tools to weed out new players, rewarding them for doing so and then marketing it as a feature in 9.1… why wouldn’t they give incentives to include new players?
Imagine if Blizzard let you know someone’s applying to do their first run at a particular key level… and actually gave you a reason to want to help them? No key loss for not timing it, as an example. Or Key +1 or +2 rewards for competing it even after the time.
Blizzard’s still giving you the tools to be an elitist prick if you want… but they aren’t incentivizing you to ignore them. They’re incentivizing you to help them.
They’re sending a much different message.
Again, I never blame players for doing whats in their best interest… I just am boggled by how stupid and short-sighted Blizzard is for fully giving players the tools to exclude new players and rewarding them for doing it. Shocker: excluded players basically only play with other excluded players or get overwhelmed and never try to begin with… and most quit the game because of it.
Who is surprised by this?
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They aren’t going to be getting rid of things. I agree the credit score they added does more harm than good, but fixing it is the only way forward.
I propose including some sort of player rating within that score. That way you can’t just buy yourself a few boosts and look like a champ, nor can you act like a jerk and just get away with it with 4 new strangers.
I did that in bfa to test it as a counter point to the “raider io is toxic gatekeeping” and recoded the stats on the people I invited and had predictable results lol
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What can Blizzard do that will “reward” me for taking a new player who doesn’t know the dungeons to a +23?
Edit. Again only one side of the discussion is using language like this. Something to think about. I almost never have “the toxic elitists” calling me names but I often have the people who claim they want to remove toxicity doing so 
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that was never the attitude back when i started and elitism was kinda a funny joke and you would only see it in the memes like 50 minus dkp. and even that dude admited he was just playing it up
there was constantly pugs going on in trade chat and everyone was welcome no gear checks and no mythic score necessary.
As long as end game content remains competitive and a race against a clock like M+ then having those types of add-ons is pretty well necessary.
i did my first raid in blues and some greens and i walked there because i couldn’t afford a mount
allso DPS meters and gs wasent in the game
Your anecdotal experience is not the entire game.
Mythic didn’t exist back then. Gear absolutely did and Avelpally was correct: people would ask you to come to the bank to inspect your gear for the dungeons that dropped set gear.
As I said, gear checks have always existed, people used DPS meters in Molten Core, people judged others based on whether they had their epic mount or not. A game with multiple players is always going to have competition.
That’s nice. Not everyone is you.
False.
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Why don’t we start with something like: “What can Blizzard do that will reward you for taking a new player into their first Mythic Dungeon +0 period”… because Blizzard can’t even be assed to do something like that.
And no one’s calling you an elitist prick. I’m not directing the term at anyone. Hell, I ran a +5 key, I didn’t take the first DPS who joined either because I knew I could find one with +30 ilvls who’d join for the lawls. And I did 15 seconds later.
By my own standard, I’m an elitist prick. I’m not using the term to be deliberately nasty.
I’m using the term to show the flaw in Blizzard’s design and why most people who can’t even get as far as a +5 think most of the WoW community is elitist pricks. Because, well, we kinda are… because that’s the way Blizzard made the game and rewards us to be.
Maybe you didn’t have them, but these existed literally from day one.
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