Early Post-Orcs-v-Humans Warcraft, and WC 1 and 2
- Thrall panel opened with “Blackmoore gave me the name so that I would never forget that I was something he owned, that I belonged to him”
- “Thrall was born orc but raised as a human, and will always have one foot in each world.”
NOTE: That metaphor of “one foot in each world” first came about in theory about immigrants feeling we belong to neither “here” (country they immigrated to) nor “there” (country of origin).
- Lord of the Clans was written in six weeks
- Lore Team was created because Metzen basically didn’t trust his own brain lol (verbatim)
- Taretha Foxton was developed with the intent to create a “compelling human for [Thrall]” so he wouldn’t hate all humans and could later work with Jaina
- “Taretha loved Thrall as her own baby brother, and was the first human to treat an Orc as a member of their family in Azerothian history”
- Taretha hugging Thrall was the first time he was ever given affection.
So none of the other Orcs hugged Thrall? C’mon man.
- Thrall being a slave set him apart from the other Orcs, who were being rounded up into internment camps
- “Thrall was raised as a slave and gladiator by Aedelas Blackmoore”
- He didn’t understand why that one Orc that was brutally murdered trying to defend him because he thought he was going to be hurt by the guards was doing that.
Sure Jan. This just isn’t realistic. House Slaves (or in this case, Gladiator Slaves) knew exactly what was happening to the Field Slaves (Internment Labor Camp Orcs).
- “The Frostwolves were the only orc clan exiled from the Horde on Azeroth”
- He started to see the scars from the wars upon the Orcs, like Grommash, started to learn about his family, and had to figure out “What I am/Who I am”
- Nature vs Nurture is a theme of Thrall, because he’s an Orc but “something else is there”
- “Thrall is a polyglot who knows Common, Orcish, and Thalassian”
- Thrall abolished the clans
- Vol’jin and Cairne were his new family, the New Horde
- “What he made, what he was trying to build, should last. Because it is not just honorable, which Orcish legacy is, it is also done in tradition, of shamanic tradition. Which I love also in Lord of the Clans was Thrall was the first shaman in an entire generation for the elements to choose. Thrall was that new start again, and we see that over and over. ‘We can atone, we can redeem, things can be good’, and he was the catalyst and honestly we was the main reason things came about.”
Warcraft 3
- Jaina was an echo of Taretha Fox for Thrall in the narrative
- “Thrall is the first known native Orc of Azeroth.”
- Jaina and Thrall are a Second Generation, allowed them to move past the wars of the post.
- The end of WC3 for Thrall was Thrall liberating his people from the “blood curse” alongside Grommash who was “the first who took the cup”
- Grommash gives his life to face the one whose blood has enslaved his people.
- Cinematic team didn’t have the technology at the time, but when Grommash/Thrall have their last exchange, Grommash was burned “to a crisp” in felfire. It was a moment of fragility for Grommash.
- Thrall believed Grommash made the right decisions at the end of the day.
- Thrall’s eyes are blue; no other Orc has blue eyes.
WoW era
- “This is the new Horde, not some demon-spawned army who lack free will.” Thrall quote
- Thrall settled in an arid dry land that wasn’t prime real estate. The reason they chose Durotar, when they could’ve chose other places, was “atonement”. Thrall knew what the Orcs did, and the baggage needed to be dealt with.
- Thrall admired/idealized the “wildness” and “passion” and “primal ferocity” tempered with “honor”, as opposed to the humans with their teacups. Thrall never really understood it because he hadn’t been raised in it.
- Durotan wasn’t well-known at the time; Thrall brought his legacy to the forefront.
- “Not all who become leaders crave the power that goes with it” Thrall quote
- Cairne Bloodhoof was Thrall’s closest friends
- Cairne was welcoming, he was older, a father figure to Thrall that showed him how to survive.
- Orcs and Tauren together allowed eachother to settle and make a home.
- Copeland says a tagline for the Horde is "They’re trying to survive in a world that’s hostile to them" The theme of found-families, families you build.
BC era
- Thrall was able to return to his ancestral homeland
- He met people who knew his parents, especially “Garrosh Hellscream”, the heir of one of his closest friends
- It wasn’t just Garrosh, but also his grandmother, who introduced her grandson to her shamanistic student Aggra, who would become his future life-mate.
- For the first time, Garrosh learned his name, what it was supposed to be. It was the destiny he’d been hunting.
- The city where Thrall meets Geyah is Geradar, named after Thrall’s grandfather.
- The orcs of Nagrand believed to that point that Grommash was a traitor and villain, Thrall told them the good he did, why the cursed is lifted, Thrall got to told Garrosh what his father did
- Thrall took Garrosh under his wing, surrogate father, giving him an opportunity for Garrosh to live up to his father’s legacy
WOTLK
- Thrall gives Garrosh high command of the forces of Northrend
- Garrosh is really excited, being “full orc”, effective and making results; Thrall can’t help but notice the way the other Orcs recognize Garrosh
- Thrall begins to doubt himself, “Is this because of my human upbringing? Is this because I don’t represent what the other Orcs expect of a leader?”
- Thrall was also trying to become more of a shaman.
- Garrosh was also raised not a “real orc” because of the shame of his father, forced him to become the “Orc-iest of the Orcs, Orc all the time” (verbatim) which leads to problems because "if that goes unchecked a lot of bad things can happen"
I feel like this implies that Orcs are inherently “bad”, because being an “orcy orc” leads to problems as orcish-ness needs to be “checked”. Idk, don’t like this take from Golden.
- Other Orcs noticed this conflict between the two. Varok lectures Garrosh that he doesn’t know his own history, tells him about the screams of the Draenei being murdered, “Garrosh asks, well what do you do now? Varok responds, well, I don’t eat pork.”
- “Being an Orc is great and all but there is a history you need to be aware of. This is a path you are not going down and if I see you going down this path sir, I will lay you out myself”
- Garrosh wasn’t tempered yet, hasn’t learned everything he needs yet.
- Saurfang/Cairne are concerned, Thrall insisted Garrosh is the orc they needed.
- Thrall had blind optimism for Garrosh, a blind spot because of Grommash’s legacy.
Cata
- “I was raised by humans, but born an orc, and I have gleaned strength from both.” Thrall quote
- Thrall felt the Cataclysm uniquely as a shaman, it was one his shoulders to see what he could personally do
- Drek’thar’s apocalyptic visions added stress to Thrall’s ineffective shamanism
- Thrall needed to know more about the elements, decided to RETURN to the land of the shaman (Nagrand) to bring back, needed to go back to a world that was broken to prevent Azeroth from breaking, a process of development
- Aggra didn’t like how everyone referred to him as Thrall, his slave name, his human name. He was always and will always be Go’el to her.
- He left Garrosh in charge, “temporary warchief”; Cairne tells Thrall, begging, “don’t do this”. You never know when’s the last time you’ll talk to your best friend (Copeland feels extra bad because a similar thing happened in his life later).
- “I have seen the truth and my chains have been broken” Thrall quote
- Aggra rose to the occasion to save Thrall from the Druids of the Flame, “NOT ON MY WATCH” is how Copeland characterizes Aggra
- We got to see Aggra’s strength and their wedding, the culmination of his crisis of faith after insecurity because he doesn’t feel he understands the Horde anymore.
MOP
- “You disappoint me, Garrosh” thrall quote
- “You are not worthy of your father’s legacy” Thrall to Garrosh was Thrall recognizing he was wrong and that Garrosh failed
- Garrosh didn’t just fail, he fell short.
- Thrall gave the warchief title to Vol’jin, his doubts exaggerated because he failed at picking Garrosh. Vol’jin saved the Horde in MoP. "It’s not in me, I don’t hav eit.
WoD
- “One of our most interesting takes on an expansion in the universe we’ve created”
We love the self-awareness.
- Garrosh having escaped justice to stop his father, rewriting all that history.
- Building the Iron Horde, ultimate force of conquering
- Thrall and Maraad were the first two who entered Alternate Draenor and realizing “Oh no” after seeing the army.
- Maraad/Alliance wants to go to Karabor, Thrall/Horde wants to see his parents he never met.
- But it wasn’t really his, it was another version. It was gratifying, but it wasn’t quite the same.
- Thrall understood this, “I can get a glimmer of what my parents stood for”, but he kept the secret from them, so it was also hurtful.
- Faced off against Garrosh in AU Nagrand. It was harrowing, even to development. It was on the AU hill where they met, ended where it started.
- All the history came to bear. At his core, Garrosh was still the young child, wounded and abandoned and alone by Thrall. “You left me to pick up your pieces”, that is an undeniable fact of what Thrall did.
- s/o to Patrick (Garrosh VA), everyone in the room felt overwhelmed emotionally when they recorded the lines
- Grommash was redeemed at the end, but Garrosh chose not to. “You chose your own destiny”, Thrall’s intentions and wishes didn’t come to pass.
- Nobody won the Mak’gora between Garrosh and Thrall. Garrosh throwing Gorehowl was Garrosh giving up one last time. Thrall just walked away without looking back, defeated.
Legion
- “The Doomhammer is not merely a weapon. It’s a symbol… of hope, of power… proof that an individual can change the world.” Thrall quote
- Thrall was still bearing the weight/burden
- Elements did not respond to Thrall in Legion. You don’t command the elements, you ask them to heed your call.
- Thrall was greviously but not mortally wounded
- He had to go away again, to heal with the Earthen Ring in the Maelstrom
- “Thrall added the Frostwolf symbol to the Doomhammer to honor his ancestral clan.”
- Thrall lost the Doomhammer, the elements took it back, the Doomhammer was dead weight in his hands.
- Losing it hurt Thrall.
- We wouldn’t see Thrall again until BFA
BFA
- I do not know what the future will bring, but I will not hide from it. I will fight for the Horde."
- BFA was H vs A in a level we haven’t seen since Warcraft 2
- Varok Saurfang comes to the fore again, realizes “I need to find Thrall”
- Golden wrote the Saurfang/Thrall cinematic, living symbols of various incarnations of the Horde.
- Thrall is like “No” for the third time, but Saurfang said he’s not even asking him to lead the Horde, but to fight for the Horde.
- There’s nowhere he could go to escape, the assassins followed him to his family’s home.
- Thrall made an axe because he knew the day would come.
- Thrall is a child of the new age. Saurfang has seen everything A to Z from the first sip of the demon blood.
- Thrall in that moment is still reconciling “Either I lead the Horde or I can’t” while Saurfang just thinks the Horde needs Thrall as Thrall
- Thralls straddles two worlds, “I can’t be a human but I’m not really an orc” now “I have to be in the Horde without being the leader”
Again not vibing with Golden’s takes.
- Thrall still feels like an outside
- Then finds himself face to face with Jaina, very old friend
- Golden wrote Jaina/Thrall cinematic
- Jaina responding “We are different” makes Thrall realizes he is in fact changed
Shadowlands
- His foot starts shaking at this part of the panel, hmm.
- Draka has not been idle in death
- Thrall has a lot of knowledge to give, Copeland looking forward at the “voices that will come to him” and be the voice of reason to “channel Cairne”
- Thrall as “heart of the Horde” as Carine was before
- “Tauren are the heart of the Horde, they really are. They are the moral compass of the Horde. I’m not biased or anything. /chuckles” -Golden
I’m exhausted. Tauren, alone, are the moral compass of the Horde? C’mon man.
- Horde Council context: Thrall once again faced challenge once Saurfang dies of how to deal the Horde. Fourth time Thrall deals with this. Thrall is now the voice of wisdom due to all who came before him, but he realizes he could not do it alone. It’s not Thrall’s Horde, or Blackhand’s Horde, but “The Horde” “Our Horde”
