Because we needed a gameplay mechanic target and giving Jaina bonus honor would imbalance said gameplay mechanic because that would be one more then what the Alliance would have had?
On that note, did Vol’jin or Gelbin ever give out bonus honor?
Nope, but both were squatting in someone else’s home because neither had active capitals. Jaina had a small city to herself. All of that is still sidestepping that human players are from Stormwind, which has zero to do with Jaina or Lordaeron or Dalaran, but is precisely why Jaina was not considered the racial leader while Anduin/Bolvar was. If the player starting experience had been as a survivor of Lordaeron who followed Jaina to Kalimdor, she definitely would have been.
Then that should make them non-faction leaders(but they were never treated as such). You are just making some arbitrary rules as to who is or who is not a faction leader.
Again, a gameplay limitation. Blizzard does not considering how the player character sees themselves(they have explicitly told us we are free to envision our characters however we want). and ultimately does not matter. You can do quests for Theramore later on as a human.
“Arbitrary Rules” = Blizzard designing the game.
Blizzard tell you Jaina is an “Alliance faction leader” in the manual. So, they designed their story with game limitations in mind.
Jaina Proudmoore is the most powerful human sorceress alive. A one-time ally of Prince Arthas, Jaina saw the fall of Lordaeron firsthand. Traveling to Kalimdor, Jaina swore to defeat the Burning Legion and its sinister agents any way she could. Joining forces with the night elves and even the orcish Horde, Jaina helped defeat the demon Archimonde and banish the Legion forever. She then gathered the human survivors in Kalimdor and founded the port city of Theramore. There she rules over the tattered remnants of the Alliance and hopes to reunite the distant human kingdoms once more.
That sounds an awful lot like leading the remnants of the shattered Lordaeron forces to me.
The city of Stormwind stands as the last bastion of human power in Azeroth. Rebuilt after the Second War, Stormwind is a marvel of human design and engineering. Stormwind's guards keep the peace within the city's walls, and its young king, Anduin Wrynn, rules from his mighty keep. The Trade District bustles with trade from across the continent and beyond, while adventurers of every sort can be found wandering the streets of Old Town. Unaffected by the ravages of the Scourge in the north, Stormwind still faces its own threats, both from without and from within.
Almost sounds like Stormwind is the central hub for humanity. One might be forgiven for assuming that a racial leader would exist there, in the place that human players begin their journey.
1 Like
The war between the Horde and Alliance has been at the core of the
Warcraft mythos for years. Recently, a ceasefire was agreed upon by the
Horde chief Thrall and the Alliance leader Jaina Proudmoore, but the fact
remains that animosity is still high between the two factions. In some
places, this undercurrent of hostility has erupted into open warfare.
She was leading the remnants of Lordearon. However she was also a racial leader that was literally making ceasefire deals on behalf of the Alliance.
Gnomeragan was/is the central hub of the gnomes and yet at the time the Gelbin was not there.
Yeah and that didn’t affect the entire Alliance. Just the Horde and Theramore. WSG, AB, AV still raged on.
Actually people from both sides were breaking the ceasefire agreement left and right. Or did you forget the Horde was attacking Theramore as well at the time? Hence the second paragraph:
but the fact
remains that animosity is still high between the two factions. In some
places, this undercurrent of hostility has erupted into open warfare
If you refuse to acknowledge that the Alliance of Lordaeron was effectively wiped out and Stormwind became the modern Alliance, I can see why it might be confusing. Jaina leading away survivors to Kalimdor from the North is not going to magically make her the racial leader of the southern human stronghold. Nor will those surviving humans (not just humans, actually) factor into the leadership of humans from that same southern human stronghold.
Gnomeregan is such a dumb example I’m surprised you even reached for it. Because Gelbin didn’t stay behind to become a crazy leper gnome Stormwind couldn’t possibly be where the human racial leader is? Are you even trying at this point?
Okay, but your post doesn’t suggest that Jaina is the leader of the entire Alliance, just a leader of the Alliance.
Nazgrel is also a leader of the Horde.
If you think Nazgrel is equal to Thrall, you’re wrong.
Just like you’re wrong when you lie, implying that Jaina – not anduin – was the king of the human player kingdom of stormwind.
Rereading this, no she wasn’t.
She didn’t contribute the same forces that Tyrande, Gelbin, Magni, and Anduin did.
By your own admission, Theramore is not the human home city. Stormwind is.
Other Information
Start Location: Elwynn Forest **Home City: Stormwind** Racial Mount: Horse Available Classes: Mage, Paladin, Priest, Rogue, Warrior, Warlock
Never did I say that Jaina was the leader of Stormwind. I however am saying the humans in particular did not have a racial leader. Or at least not someone with the same presence as say Varian went back into the scene.
Gnomeragan, Ironforge and Stormwind, all founding members were still in existance. The Alliance was never truly wiped out and remained the same organization. It would be akin to a company deciding to do a name change. The company is still the same, has the same organization and rules and functions the same but now has a new name.
You are claiming the faction leader has to be whereever the starting/central hub of their race were. Gelbin and Vol’jin did not do that thus by your logic cannot be faction leader. I am showing you how you are picking arbitrary metrics for a position that doesn’t actually exist lorewise. The term “faction leader” is a gameplay thing more then it ever was a lore thing.
Nazgrel does not have his own independent nation that he leads. Jaina does. Jaina is an equal and independent leader of the Alliance.
You implied that her vote mattered over Stormwind and that she was in every way an equal leader to Anduin/Bolvar.
Neither are true.
Her vote does matter that EQUALS Stormwind, but not over Stormwind(because again it is an ALLIANCE and everyone has the same vote). As shown by inducting the worgens you need a unanimous decision to invite a new race. And Jaina(or to be precise her representative) had such a vote.
I never said faction leaders have to be where the starting/central hub of their race is located. I implied that a modicum of common sense could lead someone to understand that the racial leader of the Humans is probably going to be located where, and I’ll quote again, “the last bastion of human power on Azeroth” is. Which is also where the King lives. Which is also where Human players begin. Which is also where the NPC who rewards bonus honor for racial leader kills is located. It doesn’t take much deductive reasoning to put the pieces together here. Although, amusingly enough, all of the racial leaders do exist in the same areas as their race’s starting area. Dwarves and Gnomes in Dun Morogh, Orcs and Trolls in Durotar, etc. How many starting areas were there in Dustwallow Marsh?
1 Like
It was actually suppose to be the starting area of the humans before Blizzard changed their mind. Hence why the city was fairly fleshed out.
Which is fundamentally wrong/potentially just retconned considering they ended up telling us Theramore was the strongest Alliance nation in Kalimdor. Even stronger then the night elves apparently.
And right now Anduin is not there but he is still considered(for now) leader of Stormwind.
Which was removed.
Which is objectively false. The Pandaren starting area is the Wandering Isle. They are now in Stormwind/Ogrimmar. Genn’s starting area is Gilneas and he is in Stormwind.
Again “racial leader” is just a gameplay term more then it ever was a lore term.
Jaina was not equal to a racial faction leader.
Theramore is not equal to a racial faction city.
Lorewise it is, hence why she got a vote with regards to inviting the worgens.
I’ve never seen anything about Dustwallow being the starting area, but even so, that’s not what made it to live play. Big doubt on Theramore ever being a powerhouse on that scale as well. If you are referring to it being called the “most martial”, that’s not the same thing as being the strongest nation.
We were talking about the original game manual, Benedictus/Bolvar, and the original faction leads. Trying to suddenly shift gears to Retail era Pandaren and Genn is silly. Vol’jin is dead, Jaina is the Lord Admiral of Kul Tiras, and Theramore is a crater. We’re not going to play timeywimey shenanigans to try to suddenly twist out of an argument every time the discussion stops going your way. I’m pretty sure this isn’t going to go past pointless contrarianism, though, so I’ll just tap out.
2 Likes
Tbh he already played himself by providing the evidence that his argument was wrong and still arguing on anyway.