And thats your opinion.
I dont see it as beneficial.
Then again we want a different type of game out of classic.
You want a convenient amusement park ride, i want an mmorpg were things are not handed to you in the name of convenience. Neither is wrong, its just a difference in preference.
Correct which is why having options is great.
This is a very short sighted way to describe this issue.
This option comes at a cost, ignoring that cost helps no one.
Sure but the same can be said about ignoring the cost of not adding something.
And in the case of LFD for a lot of people the benefits greatly out weigh the negatives. Like sure you might get trolled in dungeons slightly more often but being able to run dungeons at all more than makes up for that.
And you do have options, there are thousands of games out there. There is even a version if this game designed with every convenience you could possibly want. And with the new dragonflight expansion they seem to be taking a step back toward a more classic design, with all the convenience options included.
But instead of moving towards a game that better fits your wants in a game, you want to change the classic games to be away from the intended design that the developers want for the game.
You mean people maybe playing a different game? Oh the horror!
Play the game you enjoy inst3ad of trying to force your design philosophy onto a game ithers enjoy.
That is true, but because the other can be short sighted isn’t an excuse to be short sighted yourself.
One has to be willing to listen for a conversation to be had.
And for a lot of people, the negatives greatly outweigh the benefits.
Everyone has their own personal preferences, the point here is to be opened to listening to what those who disagree with you have to say, compromises can be made.
Issues always devolve into a “my way or the highway” for both side because neither side is willing to listen to the other side to understand their point of view and look for compromises.
Maybe we could get a limited version of the RDF, without WotLK dungeons or without heroics. Maybe we have a RDF without teleport to dungeon feature. Maybe we come up with a completely different solution such as an integrated LFG bulletin board that provides ease of use without taking away from the social aspect that forming custom groups provides.
I would be ok with a rdf if it had no bonus reward, no teleport, and no cross realm.
Im even willing to compromise for smaller realms that if the average wait time is over 30-45 minutes for your realm, then it will look cross realm.
It minimizes the issues it has, while still giving the desired benefit.
But thats not acceptable to a lot of them.
There’s always going to be people who will refuse to listen, can’t change that.
But it’s important to not fall into the trap of shutting out everyone on the basis that some doesn’t want to discuss, because then you just end up being another one who isn’t willing to discuss either.
Just be friendly and opened to talk, present your arguments in a nice way and if they don’t want to talk, then move on. Someone will be willing to discuss and it’s those discussion that matters, because it’s the discussion someone at Blizzard might spend time reading.
I’m not disagreeing that some people prefer not to use LFD, but keep in mind adding LFD in no way removes the option for form groups just like you do now. I formed plenty of groups from friend’s list/guildies after LFD was added.
The main reason people want LFD is to facilitate forming groups for people pugging. So yes I think most people would be fine with LFD without a teleport or if the quest givers were left in cities for the dailies and not tied directly to LFD or if it prioritized same realm only before going cross realm. As long as it fulfills the primary reason people want it, which is forming groups they would be fine with removing some of the perks.
But it diminishes it, which is what a lot of us who would prefer not having RDF have an issue with.
I don’t think anyone is against gaining this benefit, which is why I personally would like a compromise that would facilitate forming groups without taking too much from the social aspect of having to speak to people to form said groups or to at least make the group more social.
Well the flip side of this is a lot of people are finding that forming groups now without LFD actually isn’t resulting in a more social experience than LFD anyways. So that isn’t even a negative of LFD.
i can’t understand why do many “Anti LFD” players post on low level characters?
i can understand that many gdkp-lovers post on low lvl alts is to hide their mains because they’re buying / selling gold.
but in lfd case i can see that almost everyone favor lfd and it’s mainly people on low level characters hating on lfd, which make me wonder if it’s just 2~3 people and posting on every alt they got just because they hate lfd for personal trauma? GG
Truthfully, there are only around 10 or so anti’s on the forums. They are just very loud.
I think you already know what my response to that is going to be. I’m sure we can both agree that the opposite is gonna be the case for the people on the other side of the argument anytime you say “a lot of people” do/think/find this.
Some prefer this, others prefer that.
In my case, after playing original TBC and WotLK as well as private servers of TBC and WotLK and playing TBCC and retail, I’m witnessing a lot more social happening without LFD than with LFD.
So I’m part of the other side on this.
Also need to look at the context of why the social experience of TBCC isn’t great, saying that LFD isn’t gonna result in a worse social experience in WotLK because TBCC social experience is currently bad is just assumptions at best.
I don’t think it’s wrong for me to say that TBCC dungeons just don’t have any incentive to be played, regardless of LFD or not. Would more players do dungeons if LFD was a thing? Pretty sure the answer to that is yes, but would that make for a better social experience? We can just look at retail to see how poor the social experience is in LFD. People queue up for LFD for the rewards and other players are nothing more than smart NPCs, if the other players were AI bots, you wouldn’t even be able to tell most of the time.
To me, the quality of the experience is worth more than the quantity.
currently in tbcc there are 2type of grouping…
1st people who only group from their guilds / friends.
2nd people who group with total randoms
the 1st type will never be effected if lfd existed or not.
the 2nd type relay on 3rd party addon to get groups going, everyone of them goes to dungeon to get it done and i’ve never in whole tbcc seen someone going to a dungeon with total randoms to socialize or even talk.
not releasing lfd will not magically make people socialize in dungeons & releasing it will not make things worse than now because there is already zero socializing when it come to 5man dungeon pugging with randoms.
And this is the root of the problem which goes beyond just dungeons that classic has made abundantly clear. The social experience is not created intrinsically by the game mechanics, it’s created by how the players choose to act. Which is why even with the same mechanics the social atmosphere in classic has been quite different than it was originally.
That carries over to dungeons, lack of LFD has not automatically made dungeons more social because that was never actually caused by the actual mechanics of no LFD. And inversely those people who want to be talkative are more than capable of doing so in LFD if they want to.
The simple act of talking to someone to join a group is socializing.
You may consider that insignificant, but it still makes people more opened to speaking up in a dungeon.
Saying that you’ve never seen anyone talk in a TBCC dungeon with randoms is either a lie or you are the most unlucky player in the history of WoW when it comes to social interactions.
As for the 1st type, I don’t think you can deny the fact there would be those who stop grouping with their guilds/friends and use the LFD instead to do their dungeons. LFD hurts social cohesion as a whole.
Perhaps for extroverted people it is easy for them to socialize whether they are in LFD or not, but for introverted people, socializing need to come naturally. Saying that LFD doesn’t remove social interactions from the game is just factually false. You have to speak to people to do dungeons without LFD, that in itself is socializing, something that introverted people desperately need to break the ice and be more opened to being talkative in a dungeon scenario.
The issues of TBCC dungeons, the prominence of boosting, GDKP and all these other transactional interactions of TBCC is another problem altogether that obviously needs to be fixed, but LFD isn’t a solution to that, LFD has its own set of benefits and issues to be discussed and looked at.
what? do i have to talk to anyone to get invited to 5man dungeon? that must be something i never experienced.
i’ll speak for myself because i dunno what others are doing But i login in > i press my macro > i keep pressing it till i get invited to group > I wait till get summoned > i finish the dungeon to press another macro for gg/thx msg.
if i’m making the group? I just open the addon and invite people without even whispering or asking them.
that’s what i was doing for weeks till i found out that addon that auto type my message so i no longer even need to press my macro to get into groups, and it can also auto accept the party invite, and it’s funny how such addon have more than 500k downloads, that’s like almost everyone get groups going without whispering anyone.
but i have never seen anyone talking while group is forming except if leader asking for “do u know healer/tank friend or ask in your guild”, however i’ve seen on rare cases some people talk inside the dungeon which can happen with “LFD” existence since people who will talk in dungeon will still talk if it was via lfd or not.
This isn’t necessarily true.
I know the arguments, in fact I could steel man them and play devil’s advocate effectively.
The issue stems not just from a difference in opinion, but a difference in personal perspective on what it means for classic to be classic.
You see this brought up a lot by them, they don’t know what Blizzard’s “Classic” is, and they think it’s some kind of personal definition that they are being forced to deal with.
It’s not though. Blizzard’s Classic is about the same as mine. I truly do understand what Blizzard is going for here and so I understand the logic and rationale for why they are doing what they are.
Others can’t make heads or tails of it, they think removing RDF is nonsense, and can’t even fathom or comprehend the logic, but it’s because they essentially are not the target audience for Classic but they think they are simply because they enjoyed WOTLK back in the day originally.
Fact of the matter is we live in a #somechanges world now, and the changes Blizzard makes are going to be in an attempt to keep the game Classic. WOTLK started the trend of “non-classic” elements, and it was thus predictable that it would get the hammer in a few spots. That’s why I was unsurprised to see them contemplate potential dual spec changes as well.
RDF is part of the initial snowball that leads the game slowly down the road of becoming what it eventually did, and nobody here likes that end result, so if Classic is to have any future beyond, it needs to deviate, and RDF is the literal prime feature to begin that delineation with.
It’s absolutely true for the toxic pro-RDF posters though, they act like RDF is completely pure of any underlying design faults or poor cohesion with the Classic formula and just ignore everything.