you do realize that there is a huge difference between people playing early into expansion where 100% of players on same table for finding groups for dungeons / heroics or first raids or to join guilds, VS those who join in later phases where they won’t even find 0.1% of the same amount of players you found during the leveling content and once they reach max level they will be so behind as they can’t join most guilds because their recruitment is for that current tier, and meanwhile they won’t find 0.01% of the same amount of players you found on the same table to run standard dungeons or even heroics, and if they want to jump into raid? they will find every raid require higher gear than it required in it’s original phase and that’s if they can even find those raids because almost no one running anything unless it’s gdkp.
-for example any new player coming to tbcc now will only level by quests in dead old content, and once he/she reach max level it’s so hard to even find or make groups for max dungeons most of the time, and it’s real struggle to be accepted into any heroic, and when it comes to first tier content? people ask for very high gear to allow u to join, it’s a fact that this game currently have no place for any new players to join and keep playing unless they buy gold OR they have no life at all.
lfd was first introduced to eliminate the struggle of those new players and for those who doesn’t play 24/7, so lfd will allow new players to level, and will allow new toons on max level to have the basic gear so they can catch up and find a place into the current players progress and that means guilds will have option to find more players among those new players & also the whole community will not have dead 5man dungeon/heroics at later patches as we’re having now.
clearly the gaming experience of the bottom denominator is the only one that matters…if you think otherwise you’re a filthy elitist gatekeeping toxic psycho that is ruining the game.
hold on, are you saying that a progressive time gated MMORPG has times where it’s good and bad to start a fresh character? shocking, clearly everyone should have the exact same gaming and gearing up experience regardless of what phase of the game they decide to hit ‘create character’, impact be damned.
no one is saying good geared players has to carry under-geared players, LFD is a tool for anyone who seek group to find a group, if you’re what you call “good player” or “good geared player” & you don’t want to carry any scrub? then don’t use a tool which is made for random scrubs, that’s why it’s called Random dungeon finder!!!
they can only achieve that, if they create new servers every couple of months for new players to repeat the same process, otherwise it’s clearly a whole different experience in every phase for a lot factors such as leveling, prices, finding starter guilds, finding groups…gearing & most likely being accepted into the game with insane stat scale.
for example classic 60 - 70 had insane gate keeping due the tier content, wotlk lowered that issue by introducing tons of easily gained gear as catch up mechanics the best example would be the Normal vs heroic raids, where the stats on gear is not big but the difficulty scale is hugely lowered in normal, which made everyone almost equal on gear for both elites and casuals, and this is the step blizzard took in all forward expansions, the goal for catch up mechanics like that is to attract more people with some degree of equality, why do you think classic players hate lfd so much? it’s not because lfd has anything to do with end tier content or for whatever they claim about social aspect, the main reasons lfd is hated is that it provided casuals/scrubs…everyone to get a gear they shouldn’t have gotten without putting any effort and those people who wanna gate keep are so damn mad about the rewarded badges, nothing less nothing more.
lol…in orginal wotlk when lfd came, i always used guild chat, trade chat to get people before i queue via lfd. and btw in current tbcc i use the group finder tool cus some people use it.
Edit: however there is already an addon currently existing which automatically post your message in looking for group chat every few seconds, and for those who have the same addon and looking for same dungeon they’ll auto invite you and you will auto accept. ilast time i saw it week ago it has +100,000 downloads, everyone want to get into groups without caring about class gear especially when it comes to 5man dungeons/heroics cus most likely those can be 2~3manned anyway
Because Blizzard probably isn’t going to merge servers. We can pretend that everything is still on the table for Wrath-Classic - I still haven’t heard their official stance on Wintergrasp - but they’ve been adamantly against merged servers for so long that multiboxers would have to find a way to benefit from segregated servers to get Blizzard to change their stance.
the kicker here is those lacking dungeon luck will always be scrubs. BOE green only gets you so far.
Need the dungeons to get the dungeon blues. So we have a nasty catch 22 here.
I only have the nicer 2h axe from blackfathom since I self carried with a 2nd account. No one goes to that dungeon. Well besides a very nice mage I saw half of the week when I still was by there.
they were there a bit to do a run. If monetarily motivated to, ofc.
so what YOU want is to be carried by a full group of T6 that otherwise wasn’t going to let you in, right?
you’re not willing willing to form your own group where you bring people who are undergeared, or using their PvP spec – you want the game to place you in a group with other players who are willing to exert more effort than you yourself are willing to put in.
Not sure if to me or forum ate your reply to another quote setup lol.
I am in the normal only lfd camp. Leave the heroics out. I will cut a deal with you all. I jsut want easier, normal leveling lfd lol. Wrath and TBCC heroics…not in lfd. this I could sign off on. Many would.
since unless I am missing something t6’s would not be here unless spamming for quests. Sort of like in retail the true speed run freaks take their heroic raid gear chars into normals. to steamroll them.
A choice they make. We have no say and did not ask for it if actual levelers supposed to be there. The player chooses what they run.
they could get their calling quest done in mythic. or heroic. Nope…they come to scrub normal 50 to 60. That’s their call really.
We could have that here. so if a t6 god of death finds their way into a normal slave pens with 4 scrub levelers…they put themselves there when they opted to go there.
are you talking to me? i never said that’s what i wanted, i only said lfd is a tool where it make casuals group together, i’ve said that in many topics in the past week. bis gear people can make the group with each other before they queue via lfd.
lfd is just a tool as the name says, it’s Random dungeon finder.
it’s the same as random battleground, you can find people with full bis arena gear & In same time you find people in blues, if you want to only play with people on your gear level? and skills? that’s called arena, and for pve, that’s called raids. LFD has nothing to do with raids or end game content.
this describes my experience doing heroics with my guild after we rushed to 70
is rogue/arms/SV optimal for SHH? nah, it was challenging as hell in our fresh 70 gear but also a great deal of fun. lots of sap/blind (not easy with many stealth detecting mobs), trapping, focus/mouseover kicks on a 2nd target while using kidney shot to stop casts on primary target, then gouge to stop another cast when those are on CD, kiting with hamstring / piercing howl / crippling poison while the healer is on fumes, etc.
thing is, that’s a very different experience when you’re doing it with randoms from LFG that don’t speak your language, don’t know how to play their class, don’t know how to use any of their tools except for the dps rotation (if they even do that properly, which so many of them don’t), clicking their abilities and don’t have half of the important ones on their bars let alone keybound.
the nice thing about recruiting for your heroic in chat is that you can filter out people who give low effort, one word responses or “inv dps” and when you look closely he’s playing subtlety spec with a dagger MH, gear unenchanted, a random assortment of green quality gems if even gemmed at all and you already have a rogue.
then you kick the guy from the group and he starts spamming your chat in another language and you run it through google translate just because you’re curious and it’s all very rude insults about your mother.
yeah, I quit like that I have the choice to never play the game with that guy.
what is stopping you from grouping with other players with a similar attitude today?
i take sub-par group compositions all the time. with my guildies. maybe someone is undergeared too and we’re running it to try to catch them up. we work with what we’ve got.
we’re strong players and we communicate well, i know we can make it work.
in an dungeon finder world, this doesn’t happen. there won’t be enough willpower to help out that person who is main swapping to benefit the guild. instead they’ll just be told to join the dungeon finder queue, and we won’t have that experience together, and that 1 player is going to have a long and painful run and in the end they’ll lose the loot roll to some class that shouldn’t even want the item.
i only said lfd is a tool where it make casuals group together
this is nice to think about until you remember there is no MMR/ELO system, so everyone just gets mashed together into the same groups regardless of what they want or need from the game.
Random group finders work in lobby based games where the system can match you with like minded, skilled and experienced players. Anything else results in conflict, especially in a modern classic wow metagame.
the BG comparison is not accurate, the content you’re fighting against are other players who have the exact same handicap (matched with randoms) as you do, this is fair.
In PVE the content is static, what you’re matched with determines your handicap on a random dice roll. This is not fun or fair.
queueing random BGs as a competent player is awful.
you get the base defender’s trinket with sap, then you blind him and you start capping the flag.
but wait! some imbecile on your team runs up and starts casting a shadow bolt on the guy half way through your cap…
and half your team is 6k HP ret paladins that didn’t even keybind their dispels, freedom, etc.
6 people chasing down 1 enemy to get that sweet killing blow, completely oblivious to the base that is getting capped.
wiping the enemy at blacksmith and then everybody just stands around, multiple people trying to cap the base at the same time while nobody loots bodies or runs to GY to CC the huge wave of rezzers.
people trying to kill an enemy healer that is totally OOM, so they can rez in 10 seconds with a full mana bar…
I could go ON AND ON AND ON about why random BGs are such a garbage experience but it all boils down to a simple fact which is that they are typically filled with garbage players
and the proposal here is that we take this same basic kind of system and we export it to PvE as well? NO TY
here is what is stopping me…
there are no groups at all, i have to login for certain time in the day & stay for hours in order to find/make group for the dungeon i wants.
please don’t say that if i queue’d in lfd i will still stay for hours before any dungeon, because this argument is invalid for many reasons, 1st we already have certain amount of tanks & healers so adding lfd will not make that numbers of tanks&healers get lowered, a random person will have faster chances to get into dungeon that what he/she currently have, even though more dps will queue but then the system is time based so you won’t ever miss your chance unlike now, you can stay 5hours without any chances at all to find a group, 2nd there is extra reward for tanks & healers which will make them queue as a type of farm, 3rd people who wanna have fun doing dungeons will queue without stressing their eyes on chat, or using automated add-ons to get them into groups. 4th people could simple queue and do other things, 5th people who wanna help will still queue and help cus no one care about 5man dungeons it’s dead content after few months into expansion, 6th you can still group with your guild before you use lfd, i’ve never seen a guild in wotlk or cata telling their member not to group and just use lfd solo, 7th loot in tbcc and lfd is the same, 8th for wotlkc you won’t find people from different server since faerlina has the most numbers, same with bg’s i hop into bg’s to find almost all from faerlina, 9th you can still have super fun with randoms even if they’re from different servers since you can add them to real id, my best friends in wow, we met in LFD during end of wrath & in cata, 10th lfd is just a tool for auto random grouping, you really wasn’t playing original wotlk if you think that lfd had any impact on the game when it was released.
my talk about random bg’s was because it’s called random bg’s u join to match with randoms, is it bad thing? No it isn’t because it’s 50/50 for each team & if you want to get matched with people on your same skills / gear you go play arena or rated BG’s later, same for PVE if you’re using random DF u get matched with randoms, if you don’t want to get matched with randoms? you have to invite people before you use the lfd tool, everyone in wotlk was inviting fiends/guilds before they queue lfd. and only people who didn’t care used it as solo for either they’re so casual or they’re heavy geared and can solo the dungeon so they never cared, in the end LFD is just a tool to help everyone get into groups easily and that can never be bad to a game where people play for fun. unless you consider wow a game for something else? that’s another issue.
garbage players in pvp is fine as long as they’re matched against other garbage players. This is fun and fair and is why arena as a concept is so successful, because it has an MMR system.
without any kind of filtering or categorization it just leads to experiences like the ones you’ve just listed, extremely frustrating, uncooperative and unfun gameplay.
where are your guildies and why aren’t your running with them?
I did actually have an amazing Eye of the Storm the other day. I queued with my arena team mate because he needed a couple marks, just the two of us. But on both teams there were Multiple Gladiator level players a very high quality of player overall – multiple glaive rogues, most everybody fully geared or close to it, both teams had some very skilled healers. Very non-typical of what that BG is usually like. It was an extremely close comeback victory for the alliance, fighting back from an early deficit by running flags while forcing the horde to defend a 3rd base that we knew we weren’t going to actually capture for any length of time. The final margin of victory was just under 100 points and truly if we had not pulled it out I would just tip my hat to the other team for a very well played and extremely hard fought match.
But the thing is that this is the exception not the rule.
Most of my solo-q BG experience is looking around at a team where almost nobody has more than 8k HP. TONS of paladins, shamans, and druids but none of them are healers.
You make a heroic effort to 2v5 at one base, and you think, well, at least our team has a numbers advantage on the other side of the map, we should be rolling them, and you glance at your raid frames and see that everybody is a corpse.
I love arenas but it’s not realistic that you can have everybody online together and that’s the limitation of arena teams. I love BGs too when it’s a competitive match but those are so incredibly rare in random queues. Either you’re up against 4 skilled healers while your team only has 1 healer and he sucks, OR every once in a while the healers are pretty evenly matched but every other DPS on your team is totally undergeared and doesn’t even know how to do more with less by CCing properly.
I’ve already got all my PvP upgrades for this season, over 20k honor saved up for wrath already, 100 AV marks, 100 gulch marks, 70 each basin and eots marks.
And I can truly say in all these BGs that I did to reach this point, more often than not it was a totally miserable experience and the useless morons you get grouped with are the reason why.
Guess that makes me one of the “toxic elitists” for actually having a brain and wanting to apply it to achieve victory.
1-same goes to you
2-you can see my server by mouse over my name.
3-i’ll leave you the chance to run with your guild and you leave me the chance to run with randoms that’s why people who ask for “random dungeon finder” wants it, so they can run together with randoms
cus some people use it.
that’s why people who ask for “random dungeon finder” wants it, so they can run together with randoms 