Defend your buff, then we’ll talk.
Most of the people who follow that track never played Wotlk to that extent, The knowledge we had then to what we have now, obviously certain classes/specs are stronger because we have that knowledge but our guild did fine with algalon and this was when the Ilvl’s weren’t messed with. Our 10 man got Algalon down pretty quickly but our 25 man had some pieces of 25 man ToC before we could down him, I’m obviously not talking about everyone since the top teams could do it but not everyone is top tier.
Let them have their sweaty BiS solutions, for sure it makes things a bit easier but if you can’t beat Algalon without a Paladin tank, maybe you need to…what was it people say a lot? Git gud?
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It’s far easier for people like the OP to blame the state of Prot Warrs on Ret buffs.
Its not paladin hate, its the pendulum balance, correct.
What it is is a blatant and complete disrespect to all players by buffing the damage of the already most overpowered class in the game.
What it is, is paladins dominating the tanking world for 2 expansions. Warriors had 1, Classic as you referred to. Warcraft logs and everyone here knows how strong paladins were as tanks in all of TBC and warriors were a OT at max where Druids were taken over them due to poor threat.
Warriors get a buff to their threat and AOE tanking in WOTLK, but guess what? They have no survivability. No major mitigation. Paladin has what?
Hand of Sacrifice
Hand of Salvation
Divine Protection
Divine Sacrifice
Holy Shield
Ardent Defender
Warrior?
Shield Wall
Shield Block (Which is a far worse version of Holy Light)
Last Stand
Paladins can also stack other mitigation better than any other tank in the game. Why?
HOLY SHIELD!!! Which can be spammed non stop and keeps their block well over 120 ish.
DK? nada
Warrior? Shield Block once per minute that last for 10 seconds
Druid? laughable
You are a paladin lover and cant look past your own class to realize that the entire population is sick of players like you. You probably have never tried a hardcore group and tanking with the other tanks, and if you have, youre probably lying.
Any major hardcore group in the world and even a semi-hardcore will tell you that it takes far more to be successful with any other tank and requires a higher skill set to play those classes. Blizzard made paladins easy mode and you are probably the kind of player that enjoys that, all talk, no skill.
Dont even bother arguing it, because i know just about everyone in this thread would agree with the FACTS that i just laid out for you. Only players who love to ride paladins would argue it, thats because they dont want to see their PRECIOUS class not be on top.
Blizzard messed up, left all the other DPS alone but had to buff their favorite class because players like you whined so hard they had to. “BUT MY PALADIN!!!”
S T F U, let the other tanks get some love.
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Pally’s and Warriors have essentially swapped places from TBC into Wrath.
Pally’s in TBC made speed clears and farmed content a breeze while Warriors were preferred for progression prior to having all the phase bis.
The reverse is now true.
I think the streamers and online commenters have been waaay too harsh about Prot Warriors. Prot Warrior Damage, threat, snap aoe, and mobility make prot warriors (or should) a very desirable option once the initial progression period of the phase is done.
AD is important for progression but after that it’s not so important.
I think prot Warriors more than anything have a PR problem. They get unfairly trashed on by youtubers. The average player tends to follow the herd.
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Amazing. Simply amazing. You wrote all of that, and apparently glossed over the fact where I said specifically, that I wouldn’t mind warrior tanks getting buffs.
The issue I have is exactly what you did just now, place the blame on us. Just more hate.
So when you tell me not to get in the way of warrior buffs, I’m already out of the way. I’m just tired of people like you flinging your trash at me while you’re passing by.
And another thing: I actually never asked for buffs. Feel free to comb through my history. Yet another thing you got wrong.
One thing you did get right is that I love Paladins, gimped or OP. But because I’d support buffs for Fury and Prot PVE, I am not blind. My eyes are wide open.
EDIT: Should also mention I don’t tank. But I did used to play hardcore progression back in the day. Got up at 5am to raid for a few hours and went to college after.
When are you guys going to accept that some of us don’t play Prot/Holy?
Like, have you seen the weekly damage logs? It’s not like the change made us PVE gods on the meters.
Justifying current stupidity because of past stupidity is literally just Stupidity Squared.
“Hurr hurr hurr we were bad in the past so others need to be bad now to make it right hurpa durpa durp”
Well, because you like quoting me:
Sorry to deflate your hurr durr math.
bring the player, not the class right!?!? 
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Nobody is flinging trash at you, you are literally the problem, you are making an argument where theres none to be made.
I used warrior as an example but there are several other classes that need love.
Marksmanship Hunter-Does not outscale with Armor Pen the overall raw attack power gear gives over Survival. This has been simmed even into Ruby Sanctum.
Feral Druid (Cat)- Does not scale heavily at all even with Armor Pen. This is because Blizzard has failed to fix omen of clarity procs since the beginning of phase 1. This is a well known issue, Dont get me started on their attack chain either. Bottom tier DPS
Feral Druid (Bear)-no survivability, gets hit like a freight train with CD’s worse than a warrior.
Blood Dk-great healing, piss poor aoe threat, horrid mitigation above 35% health. but buffing them would send everyone into a frenzy because they had people like you whine their way back into buffing them (Unholy/Frost) after a nerf.
Fury Warrior-Has been simmed hundreds of thousands of times, not even in the top 5 in ICC with Armor Pen hard cap, this is due to nerfs that were put into place well into ICC 12 years ago that people forgot about but assume they will scale. Hard Armor Pen cap can be hit now in Ulduar with Buffed gear, guess what? Below Ret Paladins in DPS
Ret Paladin?
With all wow sims, Ret is #2 DPS overall in ICC with current Buff and tier set.
This is what everyone fears and it will come true. Blizzard failed to identify that classes are being played differently across the board and nothing is the same. Defending the buff was one of the worst things that part of this community has ever done and opened a can of worms that people like you tend to argue for.
Point Blank--------Ret should have remaind garbage until its glory time. But instead, we all see what Blizzard has done since original days to retail now, give love to Paladins when it is not needed and forcing the other 75% of the player base to struggle with accepting that their classes are left with ONE singular use spec.
Look at the big picture, that buff now justified hundreds if not thousands of tanks and healers to go to DPS, (argue that all you want) logs say otherwise. Creating one of the biggest gaps in available tanks/heals ever seen in any server conglomerate since the inception of World of Warcraft. Do you know how hard it is to raid now?
Every streamer out there has drug Druids, Warriors, DK Tanks and Druid/Shaman heals through the damn dirty so much that people dont play those classes now. Crippling the raid community. But lets buff Ret Paladins…Which was ridiculous in PVP…but needed it in PVP while Blizzard justified other classes as PVP spec and not needing tuning.
That made alot of sense to nobody other than Paladin players.
The most coddled class in the game, and everyone knows it…which if you look at when the buff went live and player subscription…youd be shocked to see that player subscriptions dropped 23% in the first 2 weeks. Why? BECAUSE WE ARE SICK OF PALADINS CRYING FOR MORE.
Stop ruining the game and defending that stupidity. It was wrong. End of STory
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This. My cousin play War and is the MT for his Ulduar team. They clear all HMs except Alg. Warriors are perfectly viable. People just overvalue that crutch Blizz gave to the most braindead tank in existence.
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KEK, okay bud
I’ll give you one guess at to what class you need to tank ALG.
It’s not as if he’s having trouble surviving. It’s that the rest of the raid keeps making minor mechanical mistakes, which are ultra punishing on that fight as you (probably) know. The class isn’t the problem here.
Except it is, when Paladins have more panic buttons with lower cooldowns plus an in-built panic button that allows them to make a mistake every 2 minutes, you have to wonder why a raid would bring anyone else as MT.
Nerf prot pallies, it’ll cancel out the undeserved ret buff and all will be well in WoTLK.
Algalon is the boss where the gap between tank specs is most apparent.
please see this guys quote
ALSO
Didn’t ask for your anecdotal story to prove your siloed opinion.
If you are in there with players who don’t suck, unlike your friends - Paladins are comically superior.
Kind of strange how you guys can talk about what is going on in another persons raid to say that the warrior is the problem even when they explain that other people are making mistakes.
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No, you could bring a Sham tank for all the difference it makes against raid-wide OHK mechanics.
Especially while accusing others of “siloed opinions,” lmao