World of Benchcraft
Sooooo just like now? Without dual spec? Where the better prepared and geared person gets picked?
Neat! Why is dual spec a problem?
I’m not really sure what you’re saying here, because it looks like you’re saying that there are indeed fights where having players respec would benefit the raid.
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I’m saying that respeccing has tradeoffs. It isn’t a clean matter of going from 3 Tanks to 1 on Lurker, you have adds in the submerge phase to hold that hit hard and if you respec to make everything die faster you just might end up dying fast yourself.
Same with Leo.
Same with Vashj.
It isn’t a simple matter of a fight like Sapphiron where there is literally NOTHING TO DO if you’re not the MT. That’s my point.
So that is your point? That dual spec will not create this problem?
No raid leader will ask a player to re-spec mid-raid just because they want better kill times in a certain boss. Now with dual spec that would happen.
Again, I’m not sure why you’re agreeing with me but so reluctant to accept it.
For a META perspective and if you wanna push kill times, yes, certain fights require less healers so your healers would just enable the second spec to DPS and burn a boss down.
Therefore, yes, dual-spec in TBC Classic further enhance the META toxic environment.
If it is true for Drums, then it is even more true for dual-spec.
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If a guild is going to have someone swap, they’re only going to do so with someone with appropriate gear to do the swap. That’s true whether or not dual spec exists.
…speed running guilds do this all the time. This is especially easy when you can park Warlocks in the raid but not in Groups 1-5 to be right outside the instance and at a trainer or w/e the person needs so they can get summoned out, summoned back, and jump right in in a matter of 2-3 min.
No change to the game forces anyone to use that change to their benefit. It is disingenuous to suggest that a change like dual spec wouldn’t make people feel forced to use it to be competitive and decrease the variety of specs/classes taken to raids.
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How can you ever say that dual spec will not normalize this today, and at the same time say that LW would be mandatory if Drums weren’t nerfed?
Can’t you see that you’re contradicting yourself?
If we were speaking about Classic, I would agree with you, it didn’t have to be a top guild to do that.
No one will bother to stop the raid while you have someone to go change talents, action bar etc for one fight and re-spec back. You’re either delusional or clueless at this point.
Because you can guarantee a LW, you can’t guarantee good RNG on loot.
Again, I’m still lacking my complete T4 and I have virtually no offspec pieces for caster or healer. If all I needed instead was to level LW up to a certain point and acquire a few stacks of Clefthoof leather… I wouldn’t have to worry about anything. I could even provide the materials for others.
They aren’t even the same ballpark.
Who said anything about stopping the raid? Trash doesn’t stop happening just because one person stepped out and like I said, with summon networks it is hilariously fast. But it is all moot if you lack the gear.
That’s true, but since adding in dual spec removes the need for summoning groups it just makes swapping player specs 10x easier. I’d argue a guild would be alot more likely to swap people’s spec on the fly than to take the time to set up a network of warlock summoners.
The lengths my last guild went to in order to preserve world buffs and avoid needless fights with the Horde were nothing short of amazing… and once it was done, people just supported it and accepted it. I didn’t walk anywhere in Classic.
TBC just makes that all the easier since you don’t have to drop raid or anything, you just have alts/second accounts ready to snag people.
Its just that already you can browse really speedy clears and see people swapping, even for Karazhan which is just frightening levels of overkill.
That only really supports my argument, if guilds are going to such lengths to swap player specs now why wouldn’t even more guilds start swapping players specs with dual spec added in?
Because the guilds that don’t care will continue to not care and the guilds that lack people with multiple sets of gear really can’t mandate anything… which covers pretty much all of the semi-hardcore and under guilds.
The summoner network isn’t hard to setup, so if they see no need to do that, dual spec isn’t really going to change the equation.
That point exactly. this will become the normalization and if you don’t maintain 2-3 specs gear, you will end up benched.
Not only for the top guilds (which do not do swaps in mid-raid, as much as someone tries to say otherwise), but other guilds will just follow.
But guilds that currently “dont care” might decide to start caring if dual spec is added in. Right now it might not be worth the time/effort for a guild to set up a summoning team and coordinate players porting out to swap specs, but if swapping specs is as easy as pressing a button that changes things.
Swapping specs will make progressing raids easier by giving them more options, then after progression it will become more of an insurance policy. Why worry about having billy try to tank in DPS spec when you can just swap him to prot and not have to worry?
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…if they have the gear. This is all predicated on having multiple sets of gear worth using in T5+ content and even then it is a significant what-if.
Because Billy needs to go all out when his add dies for the other 85% of the fight.
I don’t understand. You’re saying that currently an off tank (with a set of tank gear) in DPS spec is capable of off tanking on fights, so how does swapping them to full prot not make things easier?
What if billy needs to be tanking for the whole fight?
I’m saying that what is gained between spec changes actually doesn’t matter much at all compared to gear. This is readily apparent in hybrids whose roles dramatically differ in gear but for something as simple as a Warrior, merely wearing all Plate and Defensive Stance is sufficient for a lot of fights. There’s no need to change the underlying spec when there isn’t a huge survival difference between deep Fury and deep Prot.
Defensive Stance does a lot of heavy lifting all on its own, but if you’re in Leather and can be easily Critically Hit no amount of “proper spec” is going to save you if that’s what’s required.
Depends on what he’s Tanking the whole time. If he’s MTing the boss, chances are Billy never swaps to anything else because he MTs everything else. If he’s the primary OT and needs to hold/soak things continuously through this fight, chances are he ALSO has no opportunity to swap later because he has to do the same thing on later fights.
If he’s the 2nd/3rd OT then chances are he’s not actually Tanking the whole time at all, because he has temporary adds or some other “any warm body will do” job that’s only a portion of the fight. He can stay DPS and has no reason to be Prot spec. He may or may not even need to swap gear depending on his role (Blindeye on Maulgar needs nothing, adds on Lurker need some beef).
Imagine thinking that being zucc’d on the forums is a perma ban in the game itself lol
Okay, that makes alot more sense to me. I didn’t think about how the difference between different tank classes made a difference when it came to gear. So if I understand correctly what you’re saying is that while yes adding dual spec will help raid encounters in some situations, the benefits are much less than people think they are.