they should be thanking us for buying the game but yeah.
Vivianneâs fireball stacking was lovely and my favorite follower/guardian thing thus far honestly especially on world bosses with multiples of her, lol.
3 Likes
But why does it have to âprepareâ you for anything in all honesty? The bulk of the playerbase doesnât even do Mythic, and only gears in heroics to run LFR. You have to understand most of us are casuals, and we just want to see the story. We are not interested in pushing +35 content and pretending we just missed World Firsts. Itâs like saying get rid of Driverâs Ed cause it teaches you nothing about Nascar. Kinda limited view on your part. Maybe realize the reason the system exists, and is THRIVING is because player have wanted something like this for years⌠and not just to prepare for higher end content, even though it is a great stepping stone in that path should they choose it.
10 Likes
I mean counter point why do you need Follower dungeons to learn anything then?
If you wanna see the story i think they should have gone the route of delves for the dungeons as well. Just have it be you, and some sort of companion I think that would have been more interesting to see.
You definitely are trying 
1 Like
What I see in a Delve is not what I see in City of Threads, or The Dawnbreaker. Delves are small bites of solo content and one of the 3 pillars of endgame. Follower dungeons allow me to take my time, look around, vape, tank if I want or just go Feral and do some casual DPS cause I am just looking to upgrade my new lvl 70. It is a no pressure system to share the content with players. Why people are vehemently against other people enjoying content their own way is beyond me.
7 Likes
Imma press X to doubt on that.
You think people who want to see the story, are the ones using crafted weapons to push M+?.
The same ones who all profess to hate questing, to hating the story, to being forced to raid for trinkets, min maxing every single aspect of their gameplay.
We got the same free enchanted crest in DF after finish the quest chains and doing LFR, where were the tears then?
Seriously?
Youâve been on a tirade against delves since they dropped because your precious M+ isnât being held up by people who simply do not want to do it, failing to understand they are entirely different types doing these things.
Iâm glad that Blizzard is finally trying to get back in touch with itâs core audience, as the M+ group is SO far out of touch itâs uncanny.
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exactly, it doesnât have to prepare you but it effectively is balanced to do exactly that.
to extend your driverâs ed analogy, itâs like if the end result of drivers ed was your license and a nascar driving helmet and gloves. i guess you can feel cool wearing that to drive your clunker to go get groceries, but itâs obviously not needed.
if delve track was itâs own thing and balanced around solo play and only doing delves, it could give junk base ilvl but have higher ilvl while within delves, and not require upgrade tokens. but instead it funnels you to a point where youâre either done with all progression or have to do m+ at high levels or mid-tier heroic raids for any further progression.
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Clearly, but itâs weird to me that I couldnât complete the dungeon on the difficulty I wanted to.
Yep theyâre making delves the best way to get gear, and easiest, just to inflate participation and say âlook how much they love delves!!!â
As soon as rewards drop to a reasonable level half of the delves players will be done
And for some of us, that is the end of OUR road. I got to 617, rolling LFR with my guild, and once I see the story, Iâm good. But, if I WANT to push further, I have the option, and realize moving forward, at least for me is not a requirement. I do not need to run a +35 on Dawnbreaker to experience the content, or do a Mythic Raid just to see it when LFR exists. Some of us are here for the Lore and not the competition. We actually LIKE the RPG in this MMO 
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Blizzard has flat out said that the days of creating âborrowed powerâ systems and expansion specific systems that are only relevant for that expansion and then theyâre gone are over.
Which is why they evolved Dragonriding into Skyriding to allow us to use all our flying mounts with it.
Follower dungeons, delves, story mode raiding, those arenât going anywhere. Theyâll remain part of the game moving forward.
5 Likes
Delve gear may have a good item level, but itâs not that good of gear, most of the pieces have versatility and thatâs the lowest stat priority for a lot of classes. You need heroic raiding and mythic plus pieces to get BIS for a lot of characters and get pieces without major versatility. So the risk vs reward thing doesnât really matter delve gear inflates ilvl a lower geared person with rank one of BIS will do more damage
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I feel like this thread has been made because M+ enthusiasts are realizing that the general player base wonât even touch the toxic environment of M+ pugs if they have an alternative.
Delves should have their gear improved to the top M+ level, tbh. Let us get the same gear from either source and see how long M+ actually lasts.
Do people like M+ because itâs fun, or because it gives the best gear? We should have a choice.
7 Likes
You are not being funneled into anything if you donât want to go into that content. There has always been a stop gap in progression depending on what you want to do. World Content and nothing more. Dungeons to heroic or Mythic 0 and nothing more. Now people have the option to do Delves and nothing more. As for upgrade tokens you can slow acquire them by doing Delves. It is faster to go into other content but you can still slowly upgrade with Delves. Which is what Delve gear progression looks like for people that will only do Delves.
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exactly, and then you realize the option is an empty one because it amounts to requiring group play at a lower tier to even get to the point that youâre upgrading the gear again.
as a dps youâre not just going to drop into m7 or the middle of a heroic raid. hence the statement that the risk/reward is broken, the progression is broken and delves are tuned incorrectly.
it basically split the playerbase further, where before the dungeon progression made sense and now it absolutely doesnât. first time in the history of the game that you couldnât go into heroic dungeons with saturation in normal dungeon gear. because delves.
so while it is somewhat working for all the players who only care about solo progression, it is absolutely not working for those who only care about dungeon progression.
and the argument then becomes âyouâre not the target audienceâ
but they donât have a complete alternative, they have partial progression.
yes, and thereâs room for it since 9-10-11 give no progression. problem with your scenario is that if there was complete overlap it would be even more clear that the effort v. reward is completely out of balance.
Thatâs not an either or question, youâre presenting a false dichotomy. You do have a choice, the choice just ends much earlier progressionwise.
âthe best gearâ is relative to the content youâre doing. delve gear is overkill for actually doing delves because of the d8 cap.
false. if you werenât being funneled into m+ and heroic raids, delve gear wouldnât be usable for that content.
yeah and now you canât go normal->heroic dungeons.
sure you have the option to level to 80 by only picking flowers, but that isnât heroic raid ready progression.
slow is an understatement. you cannot upgrade your gear fully from delves alone before the season ends given the current rate of crest drops in delves alone, never mind that you obviously donât need the upgrades/gear to complete the content.
these arguments are absolutely moot unless you believe that theyâre not going to continue changing the fundamental progression of delves and the impact they have on the other progression systems. You cannot progress in dungeons only from running dungeons, so I donât really see what the argument is against delves being inflated rewardswise. The broken dungeon progression is handwaved currently because you can obliterate it trivially in delves: if you find delves obnoxious, too bad! thatâs how you progress
1 Like
Only if you do them in a group, solo they can be more challenging than mythic dungeons.
Personally, I would still prefer LFR, as I like to play with others, but I do believe that people with social anxiety love the story mode and don´t care about the rewards.
@OP
I actually like the follower dungeons, because I can tank or heal, the way I want and dont feel pushed by a speed runner.
That being said, they don´t offer any challenge to me and I would like them to be harder and more rewarding, like Delves are if you solo them.
Just like with group content, I would not want an MMO where this is the only content being worked on or where the big rewards drop.
For me,
an MMO is a big world with lots of fun stuff and I could never enjoy an MMO, where just one path exists. That is also why I disliked WOW so much in the recent years.
Vanilla had such a rich variety of BIS opportunities, so many great professions and all that was lost over the years. To just solo pvp to Rank 14, cmon that was the best time for pvp in the history of WOW. Today, everything is cut off from each other, nothing truly comes together, it´s all so isolated and so are the communities.
I want WOW to be a game for everyone again, where all play together and not seperated into solo, raid, mythic, pvp solo, pvp groupâŚ
Having different and plenty options is what I want to see in an MMO and don´t forget the RP and social players, who are still waiting for housing and social features in the game, like roleplaying events, costume design, or having a farm.
In that regard, WOW is lacking lightyears behind TESO and co.
And again, all I can say is: âLet people play how they want to play.â I am not insisting that M+ be removed so we can go back to Heroic as the top tier standard. So people should stop trying to remove the bottom tier for the same reason.
3 Likes
follower dungeons are wonderful,
and i hope, like FF14, that WOW adds most of the REST of the dungeons to this awesome feature.
yes yes yes i know, "WOW IS AN MMORPG ITS A SOCIAL GAME GO PLAY A SINGLE PLAYER GAME NOOB " yah but ff14 is a social game and just as huge as WOW and yet the single player version exists and is fantastic
5 Likes