ret is below shadow, destruction and survival by a lot, and above frost mage, you’ve actually figured out the strength of ret paladin - its replenishment uptime on non bosses, this is precisely the thing they excel at. Destro warlock and frost mage aren’t played and survival hunter + shadow priest have hard time applying replenishment on trash
BUFF FROST MAGES!!
(not that I’ll play frost)
Frost is above Ret at the 99th percentile despite having 1/20th the number of parses. Nearly 10% above them on Patchwerk.
Rets are at the bottom of every DPS spec except warriors, who will be passing us with both DPS specs in Ulduar thanks to the buffed item levels benefitting them more.
Rets don’t need a huge buff, it would just be nice to see Sims not showing most DPS specs at 9000+ DPS in Ulduar best in slot with ret barely breaking 8k.
Not that I ever expected blizz to do anything about it.
Another person who doesn’t understand scaling.
Yes, everyone gets an Ilvl increase. Difference being, some classes benefit MORE from an ilvl increase since the raw stats scale better for them.
Warriors will be top dogs in ICC because of this. Since Ulduar is getting an increase to itls already higher ilvl, those scaling classes get a bigger buff.
Ret paladins damage isn’t unlocked from scaling, it’s unlocked from tier 10 set bonus.
its not that ret doesn’t “gain” dmg in ulduar with buffed ILVL but in comparison to everyone else its far worse for us than it helps it widens the gap.
Comparatively they don’t get buffed.
The gap between them and other dpses gets bigger.
In essence, it is a nerf.
So long as they’re brought to raids and do decent DPS I see no issue.
I’m glad you admit you don’t see the issue.
Go read all the comments in these post and come back when you understand why they can’t/shouldn’t be brought to some encounters.
“decent” is what they are asking for, what they are doing is not decent at all, relatively, its hard to be dead last on the numbers and think “hey i did decently”
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is 900-1200 dps worse than the 2nd worse dps in the game decent?
I see the issue, rets are doing bottom/near bottom DPS and people like you don’t like it. You want rets buffed in some way and think that you’re not gonna be able to find groups.
I’m here to tell you that for the majority of groups you’d be wrong, not to mention simply joining a guild grants you a raid spot.
No, because guilds like mine don’t care about the damage a class deals, they bring the person not the class.
You should stop comparing to other classes and compare against other Paladins, i think you’ll enjoy the game more.
hot take so I should just not care my class is bad and enjoy competing against my fellow rets for bottom dps. It’s actually scary how close prot gets to ret damage levels lol.
I mean Rogues had to deal with it in TBC.
Some will say yes to this, because it’s “only” about a 15% DPS loss to a large chunk of other specs.
Others will view that as a reason to never bring the spec.
Sadly you aren’t going to get a forum consensus here, because people will experience rets not at the bottom of their individual raid meters due to other players in their raids performing badly and interpret that as rets being in a good place.
They didn’t though. They were never the worst DPS possible, and they brought the best armor debuff available.
It wasn’t enough to stack rogues, but you were making a mistake to fully exclude them.
“they bring the person not the class” so if a 98 parsing 8k dps rogue applies, and a 98.1 parsing ret paladin who does 6k applies, they take the 2nd ret? i don’t think so
That’s not how my guild works, we have a set roster with a rotating bench.
There is no application or signup.
It’d also depend on what buffs the raid has access to.
lol someone who was a 96.5avg ret with a 4.1k GS got turned away from a os 10 3d because his raid said Lol you invited a ret? He said is ret bad? they said yes than proceeded to kick him 
ret’s actually very valuable in 10man content too so much buff coverage 
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Top Ret parse on Patchwerk is only 10% higher than top Prot parse. The Prot was in some tank gear cause he was tanking Patchwerk.
funny