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Lore Story Forum
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[quote] Superior numbers
Firepower and better tech
More experienced generals/commanders
Stronger ties to outside organizations(ie Cenarion Circle, Wild Gods, Naruu, Fire elementals, ect.)
Stronger individual races (nearly every Alliance power house a substantially powerful standing army with the exception of the gnomes who work closely in tandem with the dwarves)
Much better organized and stronger unity between nations [/quote]

  1. I’m not so sure about that. Sure, the infighting’s been taxing on the orc populace but there’s a lot of orc to go around.

  2. Maybe? Sure, they’ve got planes and whatnot, though they’re not exactly fighter vehicles from the 1900’s when they’re given unique animations in WC3 where they’re shot out of the air by ranged units. Just the same, the Horde recently got in cushy with the Bilgewater Cartel. That’s a huge open door that puts them on the playing field.

  3. They may have people trained from a young age to better read a lance board, but even the Mongolians triumphed against better equipped foes. The Horde even has the advantage of having the Forsaken, who have much of the same lance board training and the Blood Elves, who’ve been at this for a long while.

  4. The Tauren and the Night Elves are entrenched in the Cenarion Circle and one side isn’t going to make a move against the other.

Wild Gods, I guess? There’s a few bumming around that’re still actively seen but there’s also the Loa and all of these entities are capricious and self serving. Good luck saddling up Gonk himself to march off to war.

Naaru are entities of light and while the religion of the holy light is more prevalent in cultures of the Alliance species, they only seem to take part in battles of a cosmic scale, never engaging in the trifling faction war that is beneath them.

The elementals are Horde territory. They’re the leading authority on shamanism. No-one communes with them than those core Horde races.

  1. On an individual level? The physique advantage goes to the Horde.

Orcs bulk up and are trained from a young age to not fear death.

Tauren are the ideal soldier, as they’re walking bulls given thumbs and the sense to wield a weapon, held back solely by the fact that they’re not a warring culture but a peaceful one.

The Trolls are unique in their ability to regenerate and have long, strong limbs, which make them ideal spear combatants.

The Forsaken are magic and do not obey the rules of science, so the only way they’re dying is through physical destruction, with the advantage of having to never eat, sleep or rest to stave off fatigue.

The Blood Elves are matched only by the Kirin Tor in magical prowess and it was them who taught the human races how to use magic to begin with.

With their most recent addition being the Nightborne, the duo is a force to be reckoned with when it comes to powers without rules or definitions that bind them.

Army wise, it has its ups and downs. The Orcs aren’t as well armored but tend to favor weapons capable of delivering bludgeoning force, which are the knight slayers of the middle ages. They’re also the original authority on shamanism.

The Tauren aren’t a warring culture and haven’t really had that many foes to fight except for the Centaur and the Grimtotem tribe. Their army is lacking but their strength as being literal walking bulls is a huge boon in its own right.

The Trolls are seeped in shamanism and other pagan-esque powers. They’re also keen assassins, with their head hunters.

The Forsaken are the perfect ideal race for laying siege or withstanding a siege. For laying siege, they can fight on, even when the enemy is fatigued and eventually has to sleep. They also can use all manners of illnesses and poisons both airborn and intermuscular (in form of coated arrows/swords) without being in peril of suffering the same fate. In withstanding a siege, they cannot be driven out by famine, pestilence or smoke, they never succumb to fatigue and do not suffer pain in the way most living things do.

The Blood Elves, while not as vast in population following the events of the Cult of the Damned, still has a sizeable amount of adaptive tacticians, with magic powers matched only by the Kirin Tor and the Nightborne, the former being a neutral power and the latter now being on their side.

  1. You are right on that one. The Horde is in constant political turmoil and it’ll be some time before it stabilizes.

I am all for being critical with the writing team. I will hold every word under a microscope and treat them with the utmost caution when it comes to handling a game story I’ve been playing since I was a little kid. But it’s a bit much to say that, despite all of the aforementioned merits, that they’re incapable of defending themselves against an enemy they’ve been at odds with since the orcs originally drank the koolaid and went through the dark portal. If the Horde didn’t have the means to exist, they wouldn’t be here and there’d be no point to having the faction story.

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pauses mid-bite of his deliscious Koldorei on a stick

Passes an innocent smile.

Slyly kicks the severed Kaldorei leg in his kitchen out of view.

Genocide? I know not what you speak of.

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I never get the people who go the night elves could 1v6 (1v8 at the time of the WoTT, 1v10 after 8.1) the horde. Many advantages the night elves have can be countered by another race, and there strongest allies are aloof unless a threat to the world exist.

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A lot of Tolkien wank for one. Elf fans are notorious for screaming bloody murder when their falsely perceived overman race isn’t depicted as an army of Legolases. I love elf tears, there’s too many fantasy settings that wanks them and brings humanity down.

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DWARVEN FIREBOMBS CAN’T MELT HIDE TENTS!

OPEN YOUR EYES SHEEPLE!

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Gets handwaived away by you lot as being the “old horde, the new horde we’re playing is totally innocent.”

Iron Horde. Not even the Horde by the Horde’s standard.

Not a single group got genocided in MoP and disqualified because the Horde that got beaten up turned on the Horde.

Betrayed the Horde

Seriously, do you not know what a qualifier is? You’re admitting that one doesn’t count in your own line.

And he’s STILL wrecking things. Becoming one of the most powerful beings across three worlds isn’t something he’d sneeze at.

After he betrayed the Horde. Disqualified.

No, it only shows that they don’t tolerate betrayal. No one, evil or good, would tolerate betrayal.

So are you just going to pretend there’s no Sylvanas fanclub or…?

Dude your allied races include 5/6 of the denizens of a PLANET.

Goblins counter Gnomes.

Older, not more experienced. We literally have “the boy king” on our side, so even
that’s much more of a mixxed bag A side too.

More formalized militaries do not translate to stronger militaries in a world where people are still using axes and swords as effectively as gunpowder and pyrokinesis, and are constantly outmatched on an individual basis. An Orc will rip a Human in half.

That’s debatable, given the “let’s zerg rush Lordaeron what’s the worst that could happen” level of organization.

People like deathisfinal, for example, so what’s “we”? Because the regular sight in sylvie threads that “the forsaken are the good guys” and even the tree thing was justified because Genn or something.

Neutral judging by all the Trolls and such hanging around the Argets.

He’s a Lordaeron king and is Undead and you guys keep saying that Lordaeron’s citizens are all Horde now, and are Undead, so doesn’t that make him YOUR king?

Oh yeah because THAT hasn’t backfired since.

Not the expansion cap, disqualified

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It isn’t, though.

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YES!

Someone tell this man! Pyrogar needs to remember he speaks for himself.

There are many Horde Players who enjoy whats going on now. There are some who agree with whats going on now. There are some who tacitly approve.

The Horde playerbase is not crying out in unison about being “the villain”. Maybe in later patches when we become the villain officially.

Currently, I know:

  1. The Night Elves are part of the Alliance.

  2. The Worgen usurped Alliance forces to assassinate the Warchief.

  3. The Night Elves harbor the Worgen in Teldrassil.

Removing Teldrassil aids the Kalimdor Horde with breathing space, and aids the Forsaken by showing the Worgen that they can’t just take cheap shots at the Warchief and hide in a tree.

Reading Elegy was sweet justice for Stormheim. Not nearly enough, but a good start.

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This is one of the reasons I love Dragon Age’s approach to elves.

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All I see are a bunch of nameless grunts that are used purely as fodder for the Alliance.

Goblin tech is unreliable at best and incredibly limited to weapons, while gnomes tech could range from utility such as alarm bots, to heavy combat mechs, to other things like force fields and freeze and shrink rays. Vastly more versatile than goblins.

I don’t think you get that point, the Alliance has 2nd war veterans like Turalyon, Alleria, Danath, Kurdran as well as other Alliance heavyweights like Muradin, Wrymbane, Malf/Tyrande/Maeiv, Meccatorque, ect. What does the Horde have? Well it just so happens that those two races you mentioned are incredibly limited, the Blood elves being based in the Alliance-dominated EK and the Forsaken not having many commanders other than Sylvanas and Nathanos.

Seeing as how Malfurion is the leader of the Organization and as how the Horde is currently acting as an enemy of nature and the CC is an organization dedicated to the protection of nature. Well 2+2, the Tauren members would be expected to do their duty to nature over their former affiliation.

Well yeah, that’ exactly what I mean, the night elf gods are guardians of nature and will defend it from those who threaten the balance while loa generally require some convincing for their aid.

I’d be saying that too if Thrall was still around and shamanism was still prevelant within Horde society. However, that is just doesn’t seem to be the case anymore.

The humans have an enormous standing army comprised of now technically 3 of the original 7 Kingdoms, Stormwind, Gilneas, and now Kul’tiras with their bearish monster humans.

Dwarves have the full power of all 3 clans now, the Bronzebeard, Dark Irons, and Wildhammer with all of their strengths like Gryphon riders, Golems, and Siege tanks.

Gnomes, like I said, simply adds to the dwarves already considerable power.

Night elves still have their champions, access to their multiple military castes the Sentinals, Wardens, Druids of the Claw, Druids of the Fang. Guardians of nature like treats, ancients, dryads, fairies dragons, as well as the favored of the wild gods themselves.

Draenei have incredibly advanced tech such as cloaking devices powerful enough to hide entire towns, defense crystals, light powered weapons, ect. That and their relative proximity to the Night elves.

Worgen are a physically powerful race literally built for war being both strong and agile. Increased senses like smell or sight and there is an entire kingdoms worth of them stalking around Silverpine, the ruins of Gilneas, and in Stormwind alongside the greater Alliance.

I’m not saying the Horde is incapable of defending themselves, I’m saying the Alliance should’ve been able to easily plow right through their weakened armies already with very little difficulty since they’ve been crippled heavily with both the SoO and the Broken Shore.

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The original one, the one where the Alliance slaughtered their way across Draenor to stop Ner’zhul from opening portals to other worlds.

The Orcs got belated into a bloody pulp, and so what if we did? Are we not allowed to be good guys who can stand up to obvious injustice?

I apparently don’t, why don’t you give me an example? Cuz i’m Just giving you examples of evil Horde leaders who got comeuppance in the end.

No he isn’t. In fact, he’s being kept in check by an ALLIANCE leader, look at that 3 for 3.

Seeing as how they’re the minority, yes, I am going to pretend they don’t exist.

Are we only allowed to be evil from your perspective?

You mean Mag’har Orcs? They’re literally just a small group of refugees, they’re nowhere near 5/6 of Draenor.

Yet they’re tech is still weaker by default

You also have:

-Turalyon
-Alleria
-Danath
-Muradin
-Falstad
-Malf
-Tyrande
-Maiev
-Velen
-Crowley
-Greymane
-Wyrmbane
-Shaw

The list goes on, Kurdran, Vereesa, ect.

If you’re using BfA as the high standard of the Alliance’s wartime ability, you’re not doing it right.

Yeah, cuz she’s enjoyably over the top on how excited about Sylvanas she is, not because people agree with what she has to say. There are Horde players that aren’t happy with what they’re doing, me being one of them.

If you’ve ever been to the Sylvie threads than it should only take you mere moments to find a slew anti-Sylvie post including people like myself who point out the obvious flaws in their arguments. I mean they hardly do any of the actual research to back themselves up when someone makes a valid point against them.

That!s more of Sylvanas’s talking outta her butt, but Terenas 2 was definitely the High King of the Alliance of Lordaeron during the 1st and 2nd wars.

Unless you mean by the utter butchering of Liadrins’ character, then no not really.

Y’know, if you’re going to disqualify half of my answers at least give me the criteria I need to work with for a character to qualify.

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While I do feel that Warcraft elves don’t get as much love as they should compared to humans (though still more love than any non-pretty race aside from maybe orcs) I do feel Blizzard shot themselves in the foot with elf aging.

We have more 10,000+ year old elves than we do elves who’s lifespan measures in mere centuries. I actually don’t think I could name an elf character who is less than a thousand. That creates an incredibly high expectation for them as we naturally assume age = experience = skill.

I prefer the Witcher’s elves. Sure, there are some elves that have lived for a thousand years, but they are a stark minority. The vast majority of elves are young and stupid. Below the century mark. Because they are so brash and reckless they get themselves killed in droves fighting injustices and the like so very few reach an age where that classic elven wisdom kicks in.

I feel like this would have been a better method for Warcraft elves to follow. The extremely long lived elves are a stark minority because most of their population dies to war or accident before they reach 200 years.

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In fairness to Tolkien, the relationship between Elves and Men (Humans) in his work is a lot more nuanced than that. But yeah, that’s the easy gloss that a lot of Tolkien Elf fans take.

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  • That’s pretty much it for all armies. They’re faceless and impersonal when together.

  • Goblin & Gnomes have been flexing their technology at each other for some time. They’re mad scientists and have giant robot fights. Goblins even the odds enough for it to count.

  • Experienced they be, no-one is victorious forever. Even the famed Genghis Khan lost at the hands of Jamukha more than once, it’s well within the realm of possibility that experienced tacticians fall short in a new battle.

The Horde’s characters don’t get as much screen time as the Warcraft 2/WC 3 cast, though they do exist.

They do have such characters as:
Advisor Willington (Forsaken)
Chieftain Earthbind (Tauren)
Arial D’Anastasis (Blood Elf)
The Black Bride (Forsaken)
Halduron Brightwing (Blood Elf)
Grand Magister Rommath (Blood Elf)
Alenjon Sunblade (Blood Elf)
Irissa Bloodstar (Blood Elf)
Gargok (Orc)
Drek’thar (Orc- old and feeble but still a farseer)

That’s part of the list of who they do have that aren’t either retired or killed off.

  • Malfurion’s word doesn’t weigh in against Cenarius’ word and Cenarius is in deep with both the Tauren and the Night Elves. Teldrassil, while politically abhorrent and incapable of being defended, can’t be that big of a deal to a demigod who knows the weight of Teldrassil and how its growth was without warrant.

There is something else to be said about raising the dead and salting the earth but they’re smaller problems in front of the more pressing matter: the sword of Sargeras is plunged into the world and now it’s bleeding to death.

  • Loa are wild gods, as much as the august celestials and Cenarius.

  • It’s never ceased being apart of the Horde’s core, only muddled from other races outside of the Horde starting to learn it.

  • The human kingdoms aren’t exactly unstoppable. Stormwind got sacked when the portal opened. Gilneas’ walls crumbled from the Cataclysm and fell to the Horde. Kul Tiras is a strong seabound people but their only advantage is the sea. The only kingdom that hasn’t suffered setback after setback was Kul Tiras, whereas Stormwind has been in constant war while by itself (save for the Dwarves and Gnomes) and Gilneas is without a capitol or the backing of a long stocked yard.

It is true, the Dwarves are on the upswing politically. Gryphon riders are unique to the Wildhammer identity but not all-powerful. Golems and tanks, while also powerful, are not all-powerful.

Gnomes are gnomes.

Night Elves have an affinity for nature and that is their strength, but that doesn’t make them invicible. Even nature can succumb to outside influences (thunder storms capable of starting fires, man made disasters, what have you).

The technology the draenei have is advanced and awkwardly fitting in the Warcraft story but it’s nothing magic can’t already do.

The Worgen are physically capable but I wouldn’t put their worth over the overall physique of the core horde races. They naturally grow into that strength. Even Gul’dan, as a whelp, was jacked.

  • I wouldn’t say the advantage is with the Alliance. Especially after the slash and burn of the Battle of Undercity. If it was enough to collapse the Legions and reduce the military’s reinforcements down to conscripts, they haven’t got that many legs left to stand on, once those soldiers perish in war. Siege of Orgrimmar was a setback for the Horde, but the Broken Shore was devastating to both the Alliance and the Horde. They both came into this war on crutches.
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Thrall’s balls that’s a ton of text

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What a nauseating paragrapg of nothing…

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Pretty much this. Why are Horde players so butt hurt that they trounced the alliance at the very start of the damn expansion?

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Hey now, Trolls of various tribes have been reduced to filler raid enemies that contribute nothing to the plot since Vanilla. Uldir is no exception.

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And at every encounter there after to date.

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Because I’m more interested in feeling like I’m not playing a complete cartoonish monster than in beating Team Blue.

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