Fingers crossed we get our thicc bois n gurls with the upcoming expansion.
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Iâve said this before, but it seems like a lot of the âobvious Alliance racesâ are chosen more due to being paired with a Horde race than their own reasons. Sethrak in particular often seem to come up in a context of âVolâdun had Vulpera and Sethrak - the Horde got Vulpera - therefore the Alliance gets Sethrakâ.
What doesnât help is that the Horde has a more open theme of being a gaggle of outcasts, while the Alliance has a much more specific, âtraditional knights in shining armorâ theme. Despite biases born from the perception of those themes, a lot of races would work well in either faction lorewise, but itâs a lot easier for a race to feel Horde than to feel Alliance. Since one faction wonât get a race without the other getting one as well, it leads to a lot of âthis feels Horde, so whatever is left over is Alliance by defaultâ.
Considering that ogres and orcs were at each otherâs throats for generations on Draenor, to the point of one almost wiping out the other on different occasions, even ogres are a race that can easily be justified on the Alliance lorewise. They would never feel right on the Alliance though.
My fingers are crossed all the way around and back. 
Iâm legitimately convinced that itâs not just the ogre fans that will enjoy having them around.
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Everquest 1 had both Ogres and Trolls as playable races when it launched, both of which were dumb and strong brutes. A lot of the NPCâs were memorable, some having interesting stories if you talked to them. And back then, it was a pretty awesome sight to see Ogre and Troll players. Moreso if they got into character and talked broken English and such.
Even though Ogres wouldnât reach Elf levels of players, though having a decent amount of Ogre players in general, I could see the same type of joy being around Ogre players. Especially when you run into players that are really into their characters. Sure, Everquest 1 in its golden years was a completely different beast than WoW, but I think playable Horde Ogres would be big enough news to be enjoyed by a lot of players, even if they wouldnât make an Ogre character.
Then there are the NPCâs. Iâm sure you could have a lot of fun and memorable NPCâs, some being serious and cunning while others would be silly and meme-worthy. Throw in female Ogres and have a gruff female Ogre commander that doesnât take crap from anyone and scares even high ranking Horde members would make for a great NPC. Not to mention quest potential with different types of Ogres.
And of course pre-expansion events involving the Horde Ogre clans, in the same theme of the Cataclysm pre-expansion events Iâve talked about before, and there is a number of things that everyone can enjoy. I imagine it being big news and celebrations everywhere of finally getting playable Horde Ogres, moreso if two-head customization options were working with them.
Itâs a lot of work to get playable Ogres in general, Iâm sure, but I can see it being well worth it in the long run for marketing purposes. Those wanting a brute that is savage or dumb would be very satisfied as well.
Hopefully weâll see that happen someday. Iâll always keep my fingers crossed whenever we get new expansions. And considering WoW is hitting its 20th anniversary in 2024, having the Horde get a race theyâve been requesting that has been a part of the series since Warcraftâs creation would make for a fitting celebration. 
That is what I am thinking, along with the Barrens getting slowly taken over by the Botani. I am hoping we get playable Saberon out of it as well, since they are one of my most wanted playable races and some did come with us along with the Botani. 
â69 days until Blizzcon starts (Nov. 3rd)!â
-Dream big, Ogre fans! 
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A lot of people are expecting us to go to Avaloren/Khaz Algar/âthe other side of Azerothâ, and it seems fairly likely as things currently are. The implications of the area are intriguing, Iâll admit.
Thereâs just one problemâŚ
Thatâs not a good sign for ogres. Itâs not really a good sign for any currently requested playable race. We could be taking a break from new playable races again, which sucks because we seem to get introduced to cool new races faster than theyâre made playable. 
The funny thing is, itâs not impossible though. Ogres somehow seemed to have spread across the entirety of Azeroth following the Second War. I guess thereâs also been implications that some pirates headed off to the other side of Azeroth and made it back? So the idea that a group of ogres settled over there is entirely possible, though I wouldnât bet on it.
Wouldnât it be funny, though, to find out thereâs this whole Azerothian ogre empire thatâs been building under our noses this whole time?
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That would be hilarious.
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They are good shipwrights and sailors⌠So hey. Why not?
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the new gorian empire?
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Apparently in a 2000 interview about Warcraft III, this was said about ogres:
Ogres are not planned to be in a player controlled army, but they will make an appearance. Their storyline is not core to the War3 campaign, but you will learn what happened to them.
The manual had this to say:
In fact, many of the ogre lords have rallied the remnants of their people that were scattered when the horde fell. Though their plans are unknown, there is no doubt that these powerful, deceptively intelligent warriors will gather their forces once more.
The final version of the game still refers to an âOgre Legionâ in some tooltips, leading to speculation that the game was originally going to explain how the ogres ended up scattered across Azeroth.
I donât know if that story ever made it past the earliest stages, but it makes me think that the portrayal of the ogres in Warlords of Draenor wasnât as new as it seemed at the time. I wonder if they were originally going to do some ogre empire thing back then.
Regardless, I think itâs a plot hook that could still be used, since the ogres on Azeroth have never had enough lore focus to contradict the idea.
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WoDâs portrayal was not new. We knew the Ogres had an empire back in WCII, and that theyâd crossed the ocean from Goria to Draenor (originally just continent names) and conquered and enslaved the orcs. The orcs would later rebel and secure their own place again. When the Horde rose it conquered the Ogres and forced them to serve as Frontline troops and to build ships for the Horde.
Lore in WoD actually dumbed down the Gorian empire considerably.
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Its gunna be throne of thunder all over again except itâll be ogres wonât it?
maybe this secluded new gorian empire has stayed out of past conflicts for so long to build up forces to reclaim their original glory, kinda like how Zul tried to do in MoP with the zandalari and all the troll tribes on the isle of thunder
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I mean, for Avaloren specifically, given there seems to be wreckage that occurs for any expedition to there, maybe itâd be a good time to introduce Ogres on the Horde and Vrykul on the Alliance; two excellent shipwrights that could weather storms and other nautical challenges!..I mean, yes, there is the Zandalari and the Kul Tirans, but maybe Ogres and Vrykul could help the most getting there as shipwrights with their own brand of navigation skills!..ok fine, wishful thinking, but still! < - <
A lot really depends on the theme of the expansion on whether weâd get new playable races. It also depends if we get anything from Dragonflight, in which case I would guess in my own personal opinion that neutral Tuskarr would be the most likely to come out of it, with the usual early access via expansion pre-order. But who knows?
I will say that if we get no new races or classes next expansion, Iâll be very dubious. Mostly given that two of the worst expansions, WoD and Shadowlands, didnât have either new races or classes. And NO, I donât count Elves cosplaying as Dark Rangers as a new playable race.
Then again, with WoWâs 20th anniversary next year and likely around the time the next expansion could release, maybe we could see something special like Horde Ogres andâŚwhatever the Alliance would get. Could be a factor or maybe not. Hard to say really.
Iâm guessing this Azerothian Ogre Empire wouldnât be there to greet us with milk and cookies. While an interesting idea, I feel like having them as antagonists may lower the chances of seeing playable Horde Ogres that expansion. Granted, if we saw new Ogre models with female Ogres, that could be very exciting (stop laughing you perverts, you know what I mean!).
Not impossible to involve Horde Ogre clans in such an expansion with an Ogre Empire, but I feel like the chances would be much lower. Still, Iâd look at the new Ogre Empire, analyze the models and aspects of them, and report anything of interest of them back here with others.
â68 days until Blizzcon starts (Nov. 3rd)!â
-Dream big, Ogre fans!
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I prefer Mogu or Broken. Sure Vrykul are nice but they are human and I think the Alliance doesnât need to get another human race.
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Nothing wrong with that at all. A lot of arguments for Vrykul as the Alliance counterpart to Ogres comes from a few points:
-Both being the progenitor of humans (Vrykul) and Orcs (Ogres).
-Both being excellent shipwrights.
-Both being big savage races with some marketing potential on that aspect.
Doesnât mean it has to be Vrykul to be the Alliance counterpart to Ogres. Iâve seen some arguments for them on Horde also. Personally, Iâm not particularly interested in them myself, though Iâm not against them at all. I do think there is quite a bit to that pairing, however, but that is just my own personal opinion of course.
I mean, if it were up to me, Iâd have Furbolgs as the Alliance counterpart to Ogres. Maybe they could work with Horde Ogres as the 20th anniversary celebration and next expansion release to tie into it. Just a fun thought, of course. 
â68 days until Blizzcon starts (Nov. 3rd)!â
-Dream big, Ogre fans!
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What I meant was that, in theory, âthe other side of Azerothâ having been untouched by outsiders for tens of thousands of years makes it very unlikely for any playable races weâre invested in being there. There are implications that there might be dwarves there, but we already have dwarves.
Like you said, thereâs still easily plot hooks that playable races could use that arenât directly related to the land. I wasnât thinking about it, but âogre juggernauts are tough enough to survive the defenses to reach these landsâ is definitely the sort of hook that could be used.
I just mean that itâs very different than, say, âweâre going to Kâaresh, playable Ethereals are likelyâ.
I see what you mean, but I just think that a strong presence of ogres at all makes playable ogres more likely. We know ogres were considered for Cataclysm, an expansion with a heavy ogre presence. As far as I know, playable ogres werenât planned for Warlords of Draenor, but their presence and portrayal in the expansion certainly got a lot of players to want/expect them. Unless Blizzardâs decided theyâre never going to make ogres playable, I think thereâs a good chance that if another expansion has a heavy ogre presence, it will come with playable ogres this time. It wouldnât be cool to tease us a third time.
Itâs not that a new ogre empire would be friendly, but that the playable ogres would be compared and contrasted against any new ones such an expansion would have.
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Iâm reminded of Starflight 2, where one of the two recruitable alien races you can exchange crew members with gives you this powerful weapon, but you need to have a crew of that alien species when you use it. Otherwise, disastrous results occur.
Maybe something like that could be used to explain why Ogre crew members would need to help man Horde ships and navigate to Avaloren despite Orc ships being designed after Ogre ships. It wouldnât be any good to just have the ship, and with the Horde Ogre clans, there wouldnât be any reason to not take some of them for an expedition that likely wouldnât be able to be traveled to by air for some reason.
Thus the MU and AU Stonemaul Clan would be able to help with that, along with the Dunemaul Clan if Megs Dreadshredder is around and wants brownie points with the Horde.
I assume Alliance would either have their new playable race help with that as well or they would utilize the Kul Tirans in addition to it. Hard to say really, as it would depend on what the Alliance would get.
Iâve heard rumors that playable Horde Ogres were allegedly considered for WoD. I havenât seen anything concrete on those rumors however, and I have no idea what the Alliance wouldâve gotten if that were the case.
Iâll need to do another search to see if I can figure out where those rumors originated and if there was any truth to it. As it stands, itâs all rumors as far as I knowâŚwouldâve made the expansion much better as well, IMO. < - <
â68 days until Blizzcon starts (Nov. 3rd)!â
-Dream big, Ogre fans!
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Iâd be interested if you could dig it up. Thereâs a lot Iâve pieced together about the history of ogres over Warlords of Draenorâs development.
The original website for the expansion described Nagrand as a zone that had seafaring ogres on the southern end of the zone.
Thereâs an early map of Draenor that was shown at BlizzCon or something, that gives a lot of information directly.
It shows that Nagrand was almost twice as tall, with âGorâThokk Ogre Palaceâ at the southern end. Heavily implying that the website was referring to that version of Nagrand. This southern end of Nagrand was also brown rather than green, which is consistent with the Lords of War shorts, which seem to depict a barren area near Nagrand, which doesnât exist in the final version of the expansion.
It also has several âOgre Palacesâ scattered throughout the continent. This is also consistent with the Lords of War shorts, which had both Kargath and Grommash kill what seemed to be portrayed as the leader of their ogres, despite the final canon having Marâgok be the sole leader for some time.
This fits with an idea I think was mentioned somewhere, where originally the ogre settlements on the orc continent were basically colonies of the empire, with the empire itself being on its entirely own continent.
The irony is why this change happened. I believe it was in some sort of âbehind the zoneâ feature that used to exist on the website, but I recall it being said that to offset the âorc fatigueâ that players were concerned about at the time, Blizzard decided to beef up the ogre presence in Nagrand.
The implication is that Highmaul (which was not on that original map at all) was moved from the ogre continent to the orc continent to increase the contrast between the orcs and other races. This ended up with a weird side effect, though, where to make the orcs less thematically dominant, they ended up more practically dominant. Because now, instead of the orcs overthrowing some ogre colonies that the greater empire may not have even cared too much about, the orcs were overthrowing the entire empire with ease.
This is also why I say the ogre continent was retconned away (well, technically itâs not a retcon if it never made it to the final draft to begin with)*. The ogre continent was only officially mentioned early on, back when the ogre presence on the orc continent were still colonies. Once Highmaul and the seat of the Gorian Empire was moved to the orc continent, the other continent was no longer needed narratively, and as far as I know hasnât been officially referenced since.
While there still is a continent on the in-game map, it basically doesnât appear on any other map anywhere in or out of the game.
Even Chronicle Volume 2 (which was 100% canonical at the time), has the entirety of ogre history happen on the orc continent. It does have a single mention of continent"s", plural, but it does not depict anything other than the orc continent in any pictures and it basically doesnât leave any room in Draenorâs history for one to be relevant.
To sum up, Warlords of Draenor was originally designed with Ogre Colonies on the Orc Continent, but it was eventually fully retconned that the Ogre Empire was not on its own continent, but the Orc Continent all along.
*That all being said, the ogre continent is still a popular idea in the fandom, and a fairly logical one to flesh out Draenor/Outland if they ever have a need to. Iâm fairly confident that the ogre continent will be reintroduced if the idea ever becomes relevant again. For instance, like I said earlier, if we go to fight the Lightbound on their turf, I think thereâs a good chance that the plot hook of the expansion would be something like âafter leaving the orc continent in ruins, the Lightbound are invading the ogre continent, we need to stop them from destroying the whole world!â
The progression of the ogreâs role in Warlords of Draenor is unusually transparent though, compared to most expansionâs development history, as long as you know where to look.
Poorly Described Sources:
- Early Draenor Concept Map (the one with the Chronal Spire)
- Original Warlords of Draenor Website
- Lords of War
- Chronicle Volume 2
- That Interview Where they Mentioned the Ogre Continent
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Itâs hard to find anything concrete on the playable Horde Ogre rumors for WoD. A lot of what I find are speculation threads or videos, but nothing that definitively states or would hint that they were considered. Certainly not to the extent of Cataclysmâs playable Horde Ogre plans.
Also considering that was when Blizzard was going to try 1 expansion a year, likely from pressure from Activision, itâs hard for me to imagine them planning any playable race at that time unless it was considered and then suddenly the 1 expansion a year decree. Honestly glad they didnât go through with that, since that wouldnât give a lot of time for development. Especially for playable races.
If I find where those rumors originated, Iâll be sure to share them. Until then, itâs why I usually refer to it as alleged rumors.
While Iâm thinking of it, I canât imagine a return to AU Draenor at all, but if we did, I could see the Ogre continent utilized for the main leveling area, maybe as a last bastion against the Lightbound, with some of the older WoD being repurposed for taking the fight to the Lightbound. Really hard to see a return to AU Draenor however, but that could be a way to reuse original plans.
Also, thinking about my last post, I can kinda imagine a scenario where Ogres and Vrykul are used to help the Horde and Alliance expeditions actually get to Avalon. I may think on it more and flesh out the idea in another post, though.
â68 days until Blizzcon starts (Nov. 3rd)!â
-Dream big, Ogre fans!
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Warlords of Draenor is fascinating to me because its troubled development means we have a lot more information about âwhat could have beenâ than normal through scattered remnants of its development.
A lot of misconceptions have become âcommon knowledgeâ though. Donât get me wrong, the criticisms of the expansion are 100% legitimate, but why those things happened are often misunderstood to the point of conspiracy theory.
For instance, everyone knows Farahlon was cut. Iâve seen conspiracy theories about how it was meant to be the grand, epic finale of the expansion only for the location and story to be cut⌠because. The reality is that Farahlon wasnât cut so much as it was recycled.
Early in development, the Primals were referred to as the Fara, as in Farahlon. Later on, as in, this happened during beta in front of the public, Gorgrond used to entirely be a mountainous, barren land. The Grimrail track used to actually run through the open world. This isnât my own conspiracy. I remember watching the dataminers share the map changes as they happened.
At some point in development, Farahlon was combined with Gorgrond. The Fara were moved to Gorgrond, scooting the railway out of the way for the overgrown areas, and they were renamed to accommodate their new location. This is presumably also why the Laughing Skull Clan, whose home was supposed to be on Farahlon, were now in Gorgrond (which is actually quite the smoking gun, despite usually being overlooked).
I believe it might have even been said somewhere that, like the ogre thing in Nagrand, that this was done to offset orc fatigue. The original Gorgrond was basically all Blackrock Orcs all the time, so they took the ideas they had for Farahlon and moved them to Gorgrond in order to provide some variety to the zone.
In other words, we lost the ability to literally visit the location of Farahlon, but the assets and stories planned for it still happened, they just happened in Gorgrond instead.
Iâm also not sure where the idea of Warlords of Draenor as a âfaster expansionâ came about. To this day itâs used as a reason that expansions should never come out faster, but Warlords of Draenor did not come out faster. It was shorter than other expansions in that it had less content, but it wasnât faster.
In fact, it was late. It was the first time an expansion was announced well into the previous expansionâs final patch. And its shortness didnât even speed up Legionâs release or anything either.
The expansion schedule has never drastically changed over the gameâs history. Every even year has seen an expansion since the beginning, with Burning Crusade itself as the only exception (and even it was a mere sixteen days away from an even year). Warlords of Draenor barely did anything in its two years, but it still took up the two year slot.
A lot of crazy things were happening around then:
- The team massively increased in size (which sounds like a good thing, but the new people have to be trained and integrating them into the team can throw off the veteransâ flow).
- The entire file structure was overhauled.
- The first stat squish happened, which was such a large undertaking it was still being ironed out after going live.
- We got the most number of new player models ever at the time.
To clarify, I do vaguely recall Blizzard expressing a desire to put expansions out faster at one point, which might have been around then. I just donât see evidence that they actually got around to attempting it. If anything, Warlords of Draenorâs issues suggest they were struggling to keep to their normal schedule, not a faster one.
Yeah, thereâs so much stigma around it (and frankly, Iâm not a fan of other timelines as anything other than temporary what-ifs) that I donât think itâs likely, but thatâs at least another reason to use the ogre continent. It would have less of that baggage.
Though, thatâs another thing thatâs had me not particularly excited about the ogre continent after what I dug up about it. Not only do I not believe itâs technically canonical right now, but the stigma about that whole timeline is so strong that they donât really have a strong reason to ever bring the continent back.
Sometimes I like to imagine that our ogre continent is still out there somewhere. I mean, we donât really know the exact mechanics of what destroyed Draenor. Itâd be trivial to explain how our timelineâs ogre continent is somewhere, even if itâs literally still just floating next to Outland.
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We already have our Ogre continent though. Itâs called âKalimdor!â Just need to put Ogres on the Horde side of that character creation screen and it would be complete!
Honestly, if the Lightbound ever show up, which I think is something that could eventually happen, a lot is going to depend on what is done with them and whether weâd go back to AU Draenor in any fashion.
Assuming theyâre major antagonists of an expansion, I assume either it would be just one small area of where their HQ is, with access to other areas locked off for reasons, or itâd be part of a raid that you warp there and back during it to take them on.
A lot really depends on the nature of the expansion and what is done with the Lightbound. I donât really see much of a return to AU Draenor outside of a novelty or at best a small isolated zone meant to last one patch. This is assuming that the Lightbound are hostile and try to take over Azeroth or something.
Still, Lightbound stuff could potentially related to Ogre stuff, given we helped some of the AU Stonemaul Clan members escape with us. There are other AU Draenor denizens that also would get some storylines, like the Arakkoa, Saberon, and Botani.
So yeah, if Blizzard really wanted to, we could go back and use the Ogre continent as the main expansion area and then assault the WoD continent if the whole expansion would focus on the Lightbound trying to invade us. Granted, a lot of it would feel samey with WoD, only with zealots as opposed to Orcs. Still, itâs hard for me to imagine that being the case with WoD 2.0 being a thing most people wouldnât want to see.
But hey, if it got us playable Saberon, Arakkoa, and Horde Ogres with it, Iâd be all for it. 
â68 days until Blizzcon starts (Nov. 3rd)!â
-Dream big, Ogre fans!
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