The Unofficial High Elf Discussion Megathread

10/17/2018 05:50 AMPosted by Alurna
And Highmountain Tauren are Tauren.
Dark Iron Dwarves are Dwarves.

Mag'har are literally the same race as Orcs.


Highmountain are Tauren isolated for millennia from the Kalimdor Tauren who also happen to be demigod blessed with moose antlers.

Dark Iron Dwarves are and always have been a distinct clan of dwarves with physical and cultural differences (who I'm really getting tired of killing while leveling).

Mag'har Orcs hail from an alternate dimension with an alternate history and more pristine version of their culture due to not drinking the green koolaid.

Lightforged are pretty bad because they are simply Eredar that spent ~25,000 years getting holier in the presence of the floaty windchime.

Blood Elves represent the majority of the 10% of remaining Quel'dorei on Azeroth. Their culture and traditions didn't change, just their name and political alliance which was more a mutual protection pact than an ideological alignment. The Fel taint lasted from Arthas' scourging of Quel'thalas until the end of BC when Velen cleansed the Sunwell, an act which also indirectly benefited the non-Blood Elf High Elves.

Alliance High Elf NPC's basically represent a few platoons of warriors and the diplomats in various embassies within Alliance kingdoms that never switched sides.
10/17/2018 06:21 AMPosted by Talendrion
Tho I do feel like Argus gave a lot of that mago-cratic vibe in Mac'aree so I liked that, yet still almost makes it seem like culturally draenei aren't focusing on arcane all that much and while it's seen as a cultural cornerstone and tech base, in terms of societal standing it's just not up there I guess?


Archmage Y'mera seems like a good reflection of the Draenei mentality on arcane magic, both in the case of Draenei and Lightforged Draenei.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Archmage_Y%27mera

"Few among us still wield true magic after we saw what tempted our brethren. I will take any advantage I can get."
10/17/2018 06:19 AMPosted by Mithrandys
Black people and white people are literally humans

Blood elves and high elves are literally the same race

It’s that easy, just because they may call themselves something different does not make them a different race


Allied races are more like allied factions.

Vulpera will be the first legit new race.
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10/17/2018 05:34 AMPosted by Ruddypiper
10/17/2018 05:26 AMPosted by Xyaa
I play a Blood Elf, the way a HE and a BE would do things are not the same- they have different thematics too.


https://wow.gamepedia.com/High_elf

They are quite literally the same race.

Those few remaining NPC's that didn't change their name and remained loyal to the alliance factions they were hanging out with are still part of the same kingdom with the same culture and institutions, just with different political alliances. Unless you are professing that Republicans and Democrats aren't both Americans.


They do not have nor the same culture nor institutions, how could they even have if they don't even have their sovereign nation.

The Republican/Democrat comparison is dowright insulting at this point, unless suddenly the Democrats get exiled from america for the past decade and go to live to a place were democrats have been hostorically well received.

Like come on, this comparison is simply dumb.

High Elves are expats of their nation, they cannot have the same lifestyle nor culture nor institutions while living in human nations. They are no longer part of the Kingdom of Quel'thalas, as they are quite literally... against the goverment and have gone into exile because of it.

Thematically is the same darn thing that Void Elves, a political and ideological difference. The only difference for playability is that VE look different, which has been made clear by many, is an arbitrary litmus test that disregard acutual decades of build up in favor of a single in game event 8 months ago.

Because they are intolerant of their own people who chose to make friends with a new alliance that didn't have the direct history of trying to exterminate their race like Humans have. Because they formed a militant group who no longer tolerate their own kin because of this new alliance.


Uhm....

Did ya for get the Second War?
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10/17/2018 06:25 AMPosted by Alurna
10/17/2018 06:21 AMPosted by Talendrion
Tho I do feel like Argus gave a lot of that mago-cratic vibe in Mac'aree so I liked that, yet still almost makes it seem like culturally draenei aren't focusing on arcane all that much and while it's seen as a cultural cornerstone and tech base, in terms of societal standing it's just not up there I guess?


Archmage Y'mera seems like a good reflection of the Draenei mentality on arcane magic, both in the case of Draenei and Lightforged Draenei.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Archmage_Y%27mera

"Few among us still wield true magic after we saw what tempted our brethren. I will take any advantage I can get."


I think that nails it right on the head. Draenei have seem to become a bit more wary of the arcane, yet is still a bit weird since so much of their tech is based around it lol. I guess that in a way does come to show they are far more advanced as they have a more nuanced threshold between careful and worrysome.
10/17/2018 06:11 AMPosted by Alurna
There have been Thalassian Elves in the Kingdom of Dalaran since it's founding. Born there, raised there, etc... Unless you can find some kind of lore that states all Thalassian Elves were born and raised in Quel'Thalas and only then were allowed to go to Dalaran, then you should accept that there are High Elves out there with a different culture and tradition than those of Quel'Thalas.


Rich snobby people in Beverly Hills are still Americans though.

Another factor to consider is that many Forsaken and blood elves were formerly citizens and even rulers of Dalaran.


Later, Dalaran found itself powerless to stop Prince Arthas and his forces when he led the Scourge through Lordaeron. Arthas acquired the spellbook of Medivh and Kel'Thuzad used it to summon Archimonde, who destroyed Dalaran. The city was left in ruins.


Modern high elves are a rare sight, and are commonly mistaken for blood elves.[11][12] In consequence, there are so few high elves left on Azeroth today that they cannot be considered a race in anything other than the biological sense. High elves did not gather in any significant numbers, nor did they act as a coordinated whole. They are a very small group of individuals scattered all over the world. As such, they do not have common opinions or goals. Indeed, modern high elves cannot even truly be said to have a culture—only a past filled with glory and regret.[2]


Scattered remnants of destroyed cities and kingdoms in the process of dying out does not a unique race make.

90% were killed during Arthas' march across Lordaeron. 90%+ of those that remained changed their name only and remained allied with Humans. Later, that 90%+ joined the Horde due to being imprisoned and nearly executed by their former Human allies.

Veressa leads a contingent of High Elves who were living outside of Quel'thalas during the scourging. Not a separate race or culture, and not a viable breeding population. Her contingent hates the Horde for political reasons which also extends to her countrymen and even blood kin. Still doesn't make her a different racial group.
10/17/2018 06:19 AMPosted by Mithrandys
Black people and white people are literally humans

Blood elves and high elves are literally the same race

It’s that easy, just because they may call themselves something different does not make them a different race


Let's be honest; this point is irrelevant to why people want High Elves.

Like literally the reason we want them in the first place is because Political Faction and Ideology > Racial Grouping.

And that's the thing, on a game that is all about faction war, of forging new alliances to add more people to your ranks, that the decisive factor of playability is still linked to an arbitrary biological grouping that has nothing to do with the actual alliances specific groups hold, is frankly, silly.

High Elves might never be playable because of this, is the reason they are not so far. But they are still an Alliance Faction, specially the Silver Covenant, with Vereesa constantly being shown as an alliance leader all over the place.
10/17/2018 05:19 AMPosted by Alurna

What they're saying is, you'll have an easier time pushing High Elves back (I don't think they'll never be added at this point), by making big threads showing a lot of interest by the community for the inclusion of these other, unnamed, "new, interesting, exciting,' races.

You can come in here and say, "No, I want something new and interesting," all you want, but unless you get out there and start telling Blizzard what is, 'New and interesting,' to you, then all you're doing is bumping this thread and making it seem even more popular in the eyes of the Developers.


I understood full well what is being said. What the reality is that just because people post here doesn't mean they aren't posting support in other threads for other races, so what the hell is the point of going "go make another thread/etc" when....people do that? Also, this thread itself is evidence to the developer for how divisive the idea is meaning it serves the purpose of showing that, yeah, a lot of people would be pissed if it happened. You can ask for "new and exciting" and make posts/threads about it and be here saying no.

It's a high elf thread, and we're here to say why we don't want the idea. Best place for Blizzard to read that.

10/17/2018 06:22 AMPosted by Adelphie
10/17/2018 05:54 AMPosted by Alamara
Learn what "literally" means.


I know what it means. They are literally the same race.


Are you literally surprised after the insane back-bending going on after multiple Q&A and etc. showing that what they want isn't going to happen?

I'm not, this will continue into the void (heh) for a long time because many can't face facts.
10/17/2018 06:35 AMPosted by Ruddypiper
Veressa leads a contingent of High Elves who were living outside of Quel'thalas during the scourging. Not a separate race or culture, and not a viable breeding population. Her contingent hates the Horde for political reasons which also extends to her countrymen and even blood kin. Still doesn't make her a different racial group.


Are Void Elves a viable population?

How does a cosmic change makes you "a different race"?

This is the main problem of the argument, you are so wrapped on an arbitrary biological division that you disregard any sociocultural and political an ideological differentiation, that are FAR more meaningful in terms of self determination than "race"

Which is silly when this is a game about "factions" fighting against each other, and the fact that there are already races that have been on both sides at different times, it's pretty evident that in universe race is not the deciding factor, or even relevant, to which side which falls in.
10/17/2018 06:20 AMPosted by Alurna
10/17/2018 06:19 AMPosted by Mithrandys
Black people and white people are literally humans

Blood elves and high elves are literally the same race

It’s that easy, just because they may call themselves something different does not make them a different race


And yet in both cases, there are different potential customization options! Let's add those through the addition of High Elves.

[Edit]: Personally I hope High Elves have some darker skin options too. Someone posted pictures in the Discord of their High Elf concept.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/433270544218062849/501912955319877642/raph__cloak_.png?width=1214&height=683
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/433270544218062849/501913151353257994/raphah_edit.jpg?width=1213&height=683

Look at that. Absolutely beautiful.
Well there you go, they are the same race
10/17/2018 05:38 AMPosted by Mythlor
10/17/2018 05:34 AMPosted by Ruddypiper

They are quite literally the same race.


That's literally what all Allied races so far are with respect to their base race origin.

The point is what makes them different culturally and how that might produce different aesthetic customization options.

And since a lot of people also want High Elves to come with Half-Elf options, that's more than enough "justification" for its uniqueness as far as races go.


Except void elves and nightborne having huge glaring differences other than culture. Culture is not a magic wand word to give races whenever. Yes they have skin color changes and it's a huge part of what makes them different. The implications of those skin changes you guys gloss over. They both changed at like a cellular level. Nightbourne fed off a different well for 10,000 years and it went so much as to change them physically. You might think it inconsequential but a change in an extremity like that (ears) is HUGE as far as implication. Void Elves literally got infused with the void to the point people make memes out of their skin color. They also have tentacle hair.

Nothing you could do to High Elves while staying true mostly to the High Elf aesthetic would be enough to differentiate themselves from their Blood Elf Counterparts.

I think everyone understands the High Elves have a different look at things. But, like it or not things like skin color and the same body are the determining factors for cross faction allied race swapping. At least is to me and seems to be for blizzard.

Keep in mind Blood Elves are the original body model for a High Elf in the context of whats playable. Because as we know High Elves literally went and spent 10$ bought a name change and that's it. Same body same race, same everything.

So In order to stay true to what constitutes a High Elf and make them different enough to justify a new playable allied race is an impossible one. No mock ups, no ideas i've seen would do it. I honestly 100% not a troll think its a problem that cant be solved to the anti-helf crowd. And sure you're ideas of what constitutes enough difference varies so its fine for you because you aren't objective, not in the slightest.

I recognize i have my biases towards things, for instance i may very well never be satisfied with remakes of the elf model. I'm at least willing to give it a shot. For instance maybe if the Elves had big enough story towards the overall plot and not some shoehorned in response to our current expansion. Like "while clearing the Eastern Kingdoms of Horde, Companies of the High Elves wontanly went on a killing spree of Ogres in order to establish new outposts. That would drive Ogres, outmatched to the Horde sanctuaries. idk, something. I'm rambling at this point, a stream of conciousness in forum form.
10/17/2018 06:35 AMPosted by Ruddypiper
Rich snobby people in Beverly Hills are still Americans though.


Quel'Thalas and Dalaran aren't part of the same nation so, I have no idea what your comparison here is.

10/17/2018 06:35 AMPosted by Ruddypiper
Scattered remnants of destroyed cities and kingdoms in the process of dying out does not a unique race make.


Why not? Sounds like a couple of existing playable races as is.

10/17/2018 06:35 AMPosted by Ruddypiper
90% were killed during Arthas' march across Lordaeron. 90%+ of those that remained changed their name only and remained allied with Humans. Later, that 90%+ joined the Horde due to being imprisoned and nearly executed by their former Human allies.


This is incorrect. 90% of the Thalassian population of Quel'Thalas was wiped out by Arthas during his attack on it. Here is a source for you:

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/game/races/blood-elf

"Led by the death knight Arthas, a Scourge army stormed into Quel’Thalas, slaughtering almost ninety percent of the kingdom’s population."

This figure does not, nor has it ever, accounted for High Elves living elsewhere in the world. Likewise, Chronicles Volume 3 states that Dalaran evacuated it's civilian population prior to the attack by the Scourge, meaning a sizable portion of it's High Elves survived. This population did not return to Dalaran until after the events of Garithos, when the dome was created and the reconstruction of the city began.

During this time we saw High Elves in other locations such as Theramore, Stormwind, and scattered lodges, as well as High Elves from the Alliance Expedition who bolstered the numbers of the Alliance High Elves after the Dark Portal was opened.

In short the number of High Elves is not well defined at this point in time. If the population in Dalaran during the Third War were even equal to 10% of the population in Quel'Thalas, then there would potentially be as many High Elves alive, today, in the Alliance, as there are Blood Elves. It'd certainly explain the strong presence High Elves continue to have in Alliance content.

Let's take this a step further for fun, shall we?

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Kael%27thas

"Kael'thas, together with 15% of the blood elven people, made the journey into Outland with his new allies."

So Kael'thas' army would've been about 1.5% of the original Thalassian population pre-Third War. Now, keeping in mind attrition through various campaigns from the moment he left Quel'Thalas to the moment we see his forces in BC, the fact we saw Blood Elves all over Outland is pretty telling. This is further compounded with excerpts from the Journal of Archmage Vargoth.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Excerpts_from_the_Journal_of_Archmage_Vargoth

"Entry 1969) <This page is hastily scribbled, in stark contrast to the perfect calligraphy of the earlier entries.>

We've been attacked... Kael'thas' army... thousands of them!!"

So even if, by some miracle, all of Kael'thas 15% survived through the campaigns against the Scourge, the campaigns on Outland, and then the failed campaign in Northrend (and this may or may not even include the loss of the Scryers which was described as the single greatest loss of manpower Kael'thas ever suffered), we see 15% as, "Thousands," of elves.

So when we hear about the 10% of the survivors who went back to being High Elves when the mana draining techniques were delivered to Quel'Thalas, and were exiled, that number could be anywhere from about, 1,500 elves to 2,000 or more.

That's just Blood Elves who went back to being High Elves, and ended up in Quel'Lithien Lodge.

Imagine the High Elves who had an undefined population outside of Quel'Thalas at the time it was attacked by the Scourge.

Long story short, the number of High Elves is undefined, as is their cultural differences. Personally I'm entirely in favor of the High Elves becoming an Alliance Allied Race and bringing Dalaran into the Alliance once and for all in the process.
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10/17/2018 06:46 AMPosted by Grabmytotem
I honestly 100% not a troll think its a problem that cant be solved to the anti-helf crowd.


I'm just going to pick this out of your post, because I have to ask - why do we need their approval? This thread - and others like it - aren't about trying to persuade people who are against the idea into supporting it. If it was, the forum would be dead and no community-led ideas would ever make it into the game, period.

It's about saying to Blizzard 'Here's an idea, we have evidence of strong community support, we have ideas and concepts on how you might possibly execute this idea that we have, and we have reasons why we feel it's a good addition to the game from both a lore and a game mechanics perspective.'

Because ultimately it's their call. And at the end of the day some random on the internet posting 'this idea is bad because I don't like it' is the kind of post that's going to be glossed over by any of the devs that apparently shadow the forums for ideas.
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10/17/2018 06:22 AMPosted by Adelphie
10/17/2018 05:54 AMPosted by Alamara
Learn what "literally" means.


I know what it means. They are literally the same race.

So are highmountain and tauren. Orcs and mag'har. Void elves and blood elves. Kul tirans and humans.

Or will you argue kul tirans aren't humans? That highmountain aren't tauren?

Them being "literally the same race" does not make them "literally the same thing".

And that was what you said earlier, that they where "literally the same". They are not.
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Also, this thread itself is evidence to the developer for how divisive the idea is meaning it serves the purpose of showing that, yeah, a lot of people would be pissed if it happened.


I don't think Blizzard cares too much about pissing off a portion of it's playerbase. If it did, Void Elves never would've been a thing.

If anything by showing how divisive it is, all you're doing is showing Blizzard that there is strong interest here, for and against, and when players come into conflict like that, it makes for engaging gameplay. You'll have people rolling Horde just to kill every High Elf player, and High Elf players who will go out of their way to target Horde because they're so passionate about it.

So, thank you for sharing your passion with us. Keep it up and Blizzard might even add High Elves in BFA, seeing how strong faction conflict has been brewing regarding the race just here on the forums.
10/17/2018 07:03 AMPosted by Alamara
<span class="truncated">...</span>

I know what it means. They are literally the same race.

So are highmountain and tauren. Orcs and mag'har. Void elves and blood elves. Kul tirans and humans.

Or will you argue kul tirans aren't humans? That highmountain aren't tauren?

Them being "literally the same race" does not make them "literally the same thing".

And that was what you said earlier, that they where "literally the same". They are not.


Please don't use logic. It's like a crucifix to a vampire with the Anti-Helfers. They can't process it, ignore it, don't understand it, and don't know how to reply to it with anything other than their MAGA-like tag lines:

But muh models!
But muh faction balance!
But they already exist!
But Ion said so!
But I don't want them so you shouldn't have them!

<queue the dueling banjo music and sound of rabid dogs fighting in the background>
This is the main problem of the argument, you are so wrapped on an arbitrary biological division that you disregard any sociocultural and political an ideological differentiation, that are FAR more meaningful in terms of self determination than "race"


Ideologically the Blood Elves of Quel'thalas aren't polar opposites of the Alliance kingdoms nor directly inline with the more extreme Horde kingdoms.

They joined Thrall's new honorable Horde in a mutual defense agreement after suffering heavy losses to Human kingdoms.

In spite of that, they would still willingly join the Alliance if not for the continued racism of the humans specifically and have actually tried.

Irish in Chicago and Irish in NYC are all still Americans who partially retain traditions from Ireland.

Quel'dorei living abroad would still retain similar traditions to those in the homeland.

People from diverse backgrounds living in a metropolitan melting pot developing an independent culture who then get wiped out when the city gets destroyed don't make a race (and in the case of Dalaran would need to include other races in residence as part of that culture.)

Void Elf numbers don't really matter. Blizzard pulled them out of the void to give Alliance a visually distinct High/Blood elf model to play as opposed to the exact same model.

It was pretty stupid, which I fully agree with the criticisms about. That doesn't mean that Blizzard will cave and add blue eyed Blood Elves to the Alliance and give them some new racial because "hurr, durr grew up in X Alliance city".
10/17/2018 07:02 AMPosted by Nindraine
10/17/2018 06:46 AMPosted by Grabmytotem
I honestly 100% not a troll think its a problem that cant be solved to the anti-helf crowd.


I'm just going to pick this out of your post, because I have to ask - why do we need their approval? This thread - and others like it - aren't about trying to persuade people who are against the idea into supporting it. If it was, the forum would be dead and no community-led ideas would ever make it into the game, period.

It's about saying to Blizzard 'Here's an idea, we have evidence of strong community support, we have ideas and concepts on how you might possibly execute this idea that we have, and we have reasons why we feel it's a good addition to the game from both a lore and a game mechanics perspective.'

Because ultimately it's their call. And at the end of the day some random on the internet posting 'this idea is bad because I don't like it' is the kind of post that's going to be glossed over by any of the devs that apparently shadow the forums for ideas.


Because adding in races is a delicate thing. Blizzard isn't blind to the fact that there is a very strong opposition to High Elves. equally or more so that their is support.

How to not alienate and isolate parts of your playerbase 101. By doing nothing and keeping the status quo they keep you playing because in reality for most of you High Elves are not a make or break thing for this game. It might be for the few that post in this thread but Alliance High Elves are not a core feature of gameplay and mechanics which trump lore everytime. Because if you don't have a playable enjoyable game whatever race you add is meaningless.

Blizzard needs to feel like they won't be pissing off a large portion of their playerbase. Thats why you need the visual representation of Horde on these forums to give a spit.
10/17/2018 05:01 AMPosted by Ruddypiper
10/17/2018 04:45 AMPosted by Lorithyn
This again... The Quel'dorei of the Alliance are not currently playable. That's what this thread is about


Alliance High Elf NPC's (being the mages in Dalaran and scattered scouts in outlying outposts) don't constitute a unique race apart from their brethren of Quel'thalas who changed their name after a Human prince killed 90% of their entire High Elf population and who later sided with the Horde after another Human general had previously tried to finish the job despite those High Elves being his allies against the Scourge at the time.

Those Alliance Elf NPC's are merely hold outs who didn't witness these events first hand (being elsewhere at the time of these events less than 2 decades ago in game) and don't even have enough people to maintain a stable population.

Alliance High Elf NPC's are bigots who disagree with the Blood Elf name change and alliance with the Horde for political reasons.

Alliance High Elf fanatics want to play blue eyed Blood Elves on the "good" faction despite Alliance High Elf NPC's having less than "good" reasons to hate/resent their own kindred.

Blizzard created visually distinct High Elf models, with new lore, and a reason for a new racial and a minority of Alliance players aren't happy because said elves are the wrong color and from the wrong "fort" or "militia" groups.


The High Elves of the Alliance are quite numerous, including the Elves in Dalaran (which number in the thousands lore wise), the elves in various lodges, the elves that remained in Stormwind, the elves in the 7th Legion, the elves who were a part of Alleria's expedition, the elves of the Silver Covenant, and the elves who were exiled from Quel'thalas for not liking the direction their people were heading (these are not holdouts, these elves saw what happened too). Every other group of High Elf that ignored the call to return to Quel'thalas has been branded a traitor for doing so. That's a lot of High Elves who are part of the Alliance, and they're more loyal to the Alliance than the Blood Elves are to the Horde. The Quel'dorei are not bigots, they were simply more loyal to their friends than their race. While the Silver Covenant is essentially a Blood Elf hate group, it goes to show that they have differences beyond physical ones

I'm not arguing that they're a different race, it's fair to say that Blood Elves are High Elves, but it's also true that not all High Elves are Blood Elves. They are politically and culturally different, with Blood Elves resembling the High Elves at their peak, and the current Quel'dorei becoming something different. These two groups hate each other, so much so that they're willing to fight and kill each other

Being that allied races don't need to actually be different races, High Elves qualify for an allied race. The DID's are just a different tribe of dwarf, Kul Tiran humans are biologically no different from Stormwind humans (the same can be said for the Lightforged and regular Draenei), the new orcs are technically the exact same tribes that make up the green orcs, I could go on. The only problem comes from a gameplay mechanical perspective, the idea that the Alliance would be "stealing a parent race The Horde." We've discussed countless ways to come to a compromise of this issue, as we understand why it may upset some people

While Void Elves have been given a purple coat of paint, they actually have more in common politically and culturally with the Sin'dorei than the Quel'dorei do, and they are the ones who are currently unable to maintain a stable population. Also you can't claim that only a minority of people aren't happy with Void Elves, I'd argue that a majority of people will admit that their lore and reason for existing in WoW's universe from a story perspective is shakey at best. The controversy around them is more about skin color, it's about the fact that a group of thalassian elves allied to the Alliance already existed, yet Void Elves were pulled from absolute nowhere

I'm not going to touch on Arthas or Garithos because it is irrelevant in this discussion
10/17/2018 07:08 AMPosted by Ruddypiper
They joined Thrall's new honorable Horde in a mutual defense agreement after suffering heavy losses to Human kingdoms.


What?

They suffered heavy losses to the Scourge, just as the Human Kingdoms did. As for the Scourge, if you want to play them, feel free to roll Forsaken. If Blood Elves had been Alliance I don't doubt you would've had quests to kill named Forsaken by Blood Elves saying, "Him... I remember that one. I remember the light fading from the eyes of my beloved as that monster tore out her throat... Kill him. Slowly. I want him to suffer and know fear..."

10/17/2018 07:08 AMPosted by Ruddypiper
In spite of that, they would still willingly join the Alliance if not for the continued racism of the humans specifically and have actually tried.


What?

What racism? Humans have gladly welcomed the High Elves, and now they've even welcomed the Void Elves into the Alliance. These accusations of racism fall flat when you realize Thalassian Elves are perfectly welcome into the Alliance and that the Alliance had kept a seat open for the Blood Elves for a while now. If anything it's the Blood Elves' racism that prevents them from rejoining the Alliance. You had Lor'themar believing Aethas' lie about not knowing about the theft of the Divine Bell, simply because Aethas is a Blood Elf.

10/17/2018 07:08 AMPosted by Ruddypiper
People from diverse backgrounds living in a metropolitan melting pot developing an independent culture who then get wiped out when the city gets destroyed don't make a race (and in the case of Dalaran would need to include other races in residence as part of that culture.)


You do realize that Chronicles Volume 3 stated the civilian population of Dalaran was evacuated prior to the attack by the Scourge? That culture wasn't wiped out, it endured.
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