As a side note going back to DKs, wouldn't all the BE DKs technichally be high elves because they all died and we're arisen before Kaelthas renamed the populace and took in fel? I guess they renamed themselves after they rejoined the Horde after learning their people joined them.
Player DKs are Argent Dawn members that were killed during the pre-Wrath scourge invasion.
Got it, that makes more sense.
The ironic thing is that it's probably the Anti-High Elf group that is keeping this discussion going longer than the Pro-High Elf group. Whenever you guys chime in it just bolsters the Pro-High Elf commenters to lend their support. If this thread had been just Pro-High Elfers, it may have died at the first thread cap or not have even reached it.
Nothing surprising about it.
Most Horde players are Blood Elf who want to feel like pretty snowflakes while screaming Lok'tar O'gar and would rather die than show up in the same silk dress as someone else at a party.
Yeah you can tell I have a scathing bitterness to how the popularity of Blood Elves on the Horde ruined the faction for me.
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10/17/2018 05:41 AMPosted by
Mythlor
I like Void Elves, I have one, I plan on rolling others, but they're NOT Quel'dorei. They're Ren'dorei. And people say "If you want to play High Elves, join the Horde," those are Sin'dorei. Plus your Warchief is creepy AF.
I'm on team High Elf :P
My point is that people associate High Elves with Blood Elves as opposed to the Void Elves that are RIGHT THERE, because all they see is skin color as opposed to all the lore and history that makes them who they are.
I see your point, but names also carry a lot of symbolic power and legacy. It's more than appearance.
Example: Who gets to claim the Legacy and History of the Cleveland Browns? The team that used to carry that name, the Baltimore Ravens, or the team that was formed in Cleveland that adopted the name?
Ren'dorei have claim to the High Elf history and legacy, but removing themselves by name also removes them to some degree from that legacy.
10/17/2018 05:43 AMPosted by
Mythlor
Only if you see Blood Elves as white elves in some hilariously unconsciously racist perspective, and as I point earlier, it's even funnier how people just gloss over Void Elves which would make a far better counterargument as they are Blood Elves on the Alliance.
They are literally the same thing. There's nothing racist about it. They are the same race.
I see your point, but names also carry a lot of symbolic power and legacy. It's more than appearance.
Example: Who gets to claim the Legacy and History of the Cleveland Browns? The team that used to carry that name, the Baltimore Ravens, or the team that was formed in Cleveland that adopted the name?
Ren'dorei have claim to the High Elf history and legacy, but removing themselves by name also removes them to some degree from that legacy.
I'm aware.
Regardless, Void Elves, Blood Elves, and High Elves are all part of the OG "Thalassian" ("high elf") race origin so they aren't necessarily incorrect.
The difference is that they are different faction. They may be the same race, but they are two different entities as a result of differing ideologies, cultures, beliefs, and practices.
Much like we'd separate Italians from Spanish, or North Koreans from South Koreans, even though they're all human. And looking at literally every world war game in existence, different factions have always had different customization options despite being the same race.
In-game, that's our Kul Tirans to our Stormwind HUMANS, Dark Iron to Bronzebeard Dwarfs, etc...
Only if you see Blood Elves as white elves in some hilariously unconsciously racist perspective, and as I point earlier, it's even funnier how people just gloss over Void Elves which would make a far better counterargument as they are Blood Elves on the Alliance.
They are literally the same thing. There's nothing racist about it. They are the same race.
And Highmountain Tauren are Tauren.
Dark Iron Dwarves are Dwarves.
Mag'har are literally the same race as Orcs.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/High_elf
They are quite literally the same race.
Biologically, yes. But even then there's differences due to fel/Light exposure of the blood elves.
Kul tirans are just humans with a different background, and yet they'll also be their own race.
In game, the name change and alliance change happened within the last 2 decades.
And the void elves happened only months ago. They are pretty much blood elves, and they are playable.
10/17/2018 05:50 AMPosted by
Alurna
And Highmountain Tauren are Tauren.
Dark Iron Dwarves are Dwarves.
Mag'har are literally the same race as Orcs.
True, true and true (except for the "literally" equivalence of the mag'har).
The only thing that makes those allied races stand out are cosmetic.
So, just make cosmetic differences, and you have high elves. There were tons of suggestions on how to do that posted in the forums not long ago.
They are literally the same thing. There's nothing racist about it. They are the same race.
Learn what "literally" means.
They are literally the same thing. There's nothing racist about it. They are the same race.
*breaths deeply*
If people wanted the race they'd just play Void Elves. They're aware that they are the same race, and that's the case with all allied races so you are not really making any poignant argument here. Lightforged Draenei are literally Draenei hopped up on the Light.
They want to play as the faction that has splintered off from Quel'thalas all the way back to Alleria ditching them to help the Alliance in Warcraft II. There is potential for lore development there, some that has gone ignored forever, namely the woodland themes that High Elves had in Warcraft II, that can possibly justify the very first elf shaman option.
It's unfortunate that people really can't tell that High Elves are the faction of Thalassian elves. Blizzard should have renamed them Silver Elves or something so we can avoid this sort of situation.
Of course, since these names are all lore-based, the point of it was to stress that these are the "OG" High Elves that stuck to their traditions and ideologies that the Blood Elves chose to forsake when they underwent a cultural shift post-Arthas.
Hopefully the Blood Elf heritage armor questline will make this clear.
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10/17/2018 05:50 AMPosted by
Alurna
Mag'har are literally the same race as Orcs.
Not just the same race.
Literally the same people, some with an extra dose of genderbending :P
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Learn what "literally" means.
im sorry but high elves literally are blood elves, just like void elves literally are blood elves
But that said, all of that doesnât really seem to matter for allied races
I like Void Elves, I have one, I plan on rolling others, but they're NOT Quel'dorei. They're Ren'dorei. And people say "If you want to play High Elves, join the Horde," those are Sin'dorei. Plus your Warchief is creepy AF.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/High_elf
The high elves, or quel'dorei ("children of noble birth" in Darnassian and Thalassian[4]), are a race descended from the Highborne night elves who left Kalimdor and settled in the Eastern Kingdoms, founding Quel'Thalas.
approximately 90%[5] of their population was slaughtered during the Third War.[6] Following this, 90% of the surviving high elves changed their name to "blood elves" or sin'dorei (children of the blood in Thalassian) in remembrance of their fallen brethren, and no longer consider themselves high elven.
Blood Elves are basically equivalent to British immigrants to North American who then decided to call themselves Americans around 1776.
The vast majority of Quel'dorei name changed themselves to Sin'dorei less than 2 decades ago, then a couple of months ago some of those Sin'dorei renamed themselves Ren'dorei. They are all Quel'dorei though in actual fact and all come from the same kingdom with the same cultural traditions. Technically, the most different are the Ren'dorei who are pretty much just radioactive Quel'dorei.
The only remaining Quel'dorei who didn't accept a voluntary name change resided in other cities (like mages in Dalaran or ambassadors in other kingdoms) or were stationed in outposts in other Alliance kingdoms. Not a different race, or culture, or even a sustainable population.
1 major dissenting lore character does not a race make. Particularly when said character was all happy hanging with any and all races and classes just a few months ago during Legion.
Learn what "literally" means.
im sorry but high elves literally are blood elves, just like void elves literally are blood elves
But that said, all of that doesnât really seem to matter for allied races
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/literally
adverb
[1] in the literal or strict sense:
She failed to grasp the metaphor and interpreted the poem literally. What does the word mean literally?[2] in a literal manner; word for word:
to translate literally.[3] actually; without exaggeration or inaccuracy:
The city was literally destroyed.High Elves are not, "Literally," Blood Elves, otherwise we would be calling them Blood Elves.
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Learn what "literally" means.
im sorry but high elves literally are blood elves, just like void elves literally are blood elves
But that said, all of that doesnât really seem to matter for allied races
You're confused. If we construe High Elf as the set, Blood Elves are a subset. That is to say that one could claim that Blood Elves are High Elves, but it is inaccurate to say the reverse -- since not all High Elves are Blood Elves.
If we construe High Elves and Blood Elves as mutually exclusive identities, then there's no overlap whatsoever. In short, that *literally* can't be the case.
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10/17/2018 05:55 AMPosted by
Mythlor
Of course, since these names are all lore-based, the point of it was to stress that these are the "OG" High Elves that stuck to their traditions and ideologies that the Blood Elves chose to forsake when they underwent a cultural shift post-Arthas.
Nothing changed but the name and the allegiance though. You really aren't changing traditions in the span of decades, particularly for a race that lives for centuries.
Ideology isn't a consideration given that Lorthe'mar has tried to take the Blood Elves back to the Alliance a couple of times already.
They are all Quel'dorei though in actual fact and all come from the same kingdom with the same cultural traditions.
The only remaining Quel'dorei who didn't accept a voluntary name change resided in other cities
You've contradicted yourself.
Not ALL Thalassian Elves came from Quel'Thalas. There have been Thalassian Elves in the Kingdom of Dalaran since it's founding. Born there, raised there, etc... Unless you can find some kind of lore that states all Thalassian Elves were born and raised in Quel'Thalas and only then were allowed to go to Dalaran, then you should accept that there are High Elves out there with a different culture and tradition than those of Quel'Thalas.
Kael'thas himself in the Chronicles alluded to the differences between the elves of Dalaran and those of Quel'Thalas, noting how he dreaded returning to Quel'Thalas because of how the people there would judge him, how they were typically more close-minded and intolerant than elves from Dalaran and such.
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Learn what "literally" means.
im sorry but high elves literally are blood elves, just like void elves literally are blood elves
But that said, all of that doesnât really seem to matter for allied races
Just by them having different names makes them "literally" different.
For something to be "literally" the same, it must be strictly the same. It can't be similar, it can't be a metaphor, it can't be a comparison of traits, it must be the same thing.
High elf means something different from blood elves. Each word has its own background to it, and by just saying them you know they are elves whose history diverged at some point. They are not "literally" the same.
...im sorry but high elves literally are blood elves, just like void elves literally are blood elves
But that said, all of that doesnât really seem to matter for allied races
You're confused. If we construe High Elf as the set, Blood Elves are a subset. That is to say that one could claim that Blood Elves are High Elves, but it is inaccurate to say the reverse -- since not all High Elves are Blood Elves.
If we construe High Elves and Blood Elves as mutually exclusive identities, then there's no overlap whatsoever. In short, that literally can't be the case.
Perfect!
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Black people and white people are literally humans
Blood elves and high elves are literally the same race
Itâs that easy, just because they may call themselves something different does not make them a different race
Black people and white people are literally humans
Blood elves and high elves are literally the same race
Itâs that easy, just because they may call themselves something different does not make them a different race
And yet in both cases, there are different potential customization options! Let's add those through the addition of High Elves.
[Edit]: Personally I hope High Elves have some darker skin options too. Someone posted pictures in the Discord of their High Elf concept.
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/433270544218062849/501912955319877642/raph__cloak_.png?width=1214&height=683
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/433270544218062849/501913151353257994/raphah_edit.jpg?width=1213&height=683
Look at that. Absolutely beautiful.
1 Like
10/16/2018 05:46 AMPosted by
Aedrid
Goats and Lightforged goats: Good for pallies and priests and shammies but won't work for me and mages.
But arcane is one of the cornerstones of draenei society. Their society is literally covered in arcane. All those purple crystals? Those are arcane crystals. The Vindicaar was even arcane before it got defiled by the Light.
Which is actually kind of weird that Mages are the less explored Draenei faction. Like by all means they should the the best casters on the Alliance, but it always gets downplayed compared to their other roles. Even in Draenor, when we got to see Draenei society as never before, the mage/arcanist side was the least explored.
Tho I do feel like Argus gave a lot of that mago-cratic vibe in Mac'aree so I liked that, yet still almost makes it seem like culturally draenei aren't focusing on arcane all that much and while it's seen as a cultural cornerstone and tech base, in terms of societal standing it's just not up there I guess?
10/17/2018 05:54 AMPosted by
Alamara
Learn what "literally" means.
I know what it means. They are literally the same race.