10/17/2018 07:03 AMPosted by
Alamara
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I know what it means. They are literally the same race.
So are highmountain and tauren. Orcs and mag'har. Void elves and blood elves. Kul tirans and humans.
Or will you argue kul tirans aren't humans? That highmountain aren't tauren?
Them being "literally the same race" does not make them "literally the same thing".
And that was what you said earlier, that they where "literally the same". They are not.
They have the same origins but the story of the High Elves and Blood elves is completely different ever since WC3 tft.
One group was Prosecuted by a bad Human, and that group of Elves felt that they could never trust humans again and joined the horde as a result. They also followed illidan and Kaelthas to find a way to cure or feed their mana addiction. They became the Blood elves, compelling story with a really good back ground.
The Other group is made of Elves that refused and to use fel for their mana addiction or made up of Elves that were living in stormwind or serving the alliance in outlands. They are the Silver Covenant and various groups of Elves still loyal to the Alliance, They still label themselves High Elves.
I think the inclusion of playable High elves would drive the Blood elf story in a positive way, it would make WoW have to revisit why hey are Blood elves and open more conflicts that are compelling in this Faction War.
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10/17/2018 07:06 AMPosted by
Alurna
Also, this thread itself is evidence to the developer for how divisive the idea is meaning it serves the purpose of showing that, yeah, a lot of people would be pissed if it happened.
I don't think Blizzard cares too much about pissing off a portion of it's playerbase. If it did, Void Elves never would've been a thing.
If anything by showing how divisive it is, all you're doing is showing Blizzard that there is strong interest here, for and against, and when players come into conflict like that, it makes for engaging gameplay. You'll have people rolling Horde just to kill every High Elf player, and High Elf players who will go out of their way to target Horde because they're so passionate about it.
So, thank you for sharing your passion with us. Keep it up and Blizzard might even add High Elves in BFA, seeing how strong faction conflict has been brewing regarding the race just here on the forums.
Nice try, trying to drive me off by saying this is counterproductive to my interests is not going to work. Because its not true.
No, people won't be rolling Horde just to kill an elf. If you believe that you're delusional. Void Elves were a compromise and it worked. Its the most played Allied race and all you have left is you, your manifest and a few hardliners.
10/17/2018 07:06 AMPosted by
Alurna
I don't think Blizzard cares too much about pissing off a portion of it's playerbase. If it did, Void Elves never would've been a thing.
Right, which is why void elves are what the Alliance have and aren't getting a Horde race.
Also, means they don't have to care about the few here !@#$%ing about it in the long term.
Nice try, trying to drive me off by saying this is counterproductive to my interests is not going to work. Because its not true.
No, people won't be rolling Horde just to kill an elf. If you believe that you're delusional. Void Elves were a compromise and it worked. Its the most played Allied race and all you have left is you, your manifest and a few hardliners.
Gets told no more than once (and they can complain how it's not a no till their face turns blue doesn't make it any less true) and they continue to twist until they can get what they want, everything else be damned (for many, anyway.)
This "you're supporting us just by being here" bs isn't anything, we're showing Blizzard exactly why they should continue to not do it and actually move in the direction of having something be 100% final like killing them off so only void and blood elves remain.
Because adding in races is a delicate thing. Blizzard isn't blind to the fact that there is a very strong opposition to High Elves. equally or more so that their is support.
How to not alienate and isolate parts of your playerbase 101. By doing nothing and keeping the status quo they keep you playing because in reality for most of you High Elves are not a make or break thing for this game. It might be for the few that post in this thread but Alliance High Elves are not a core feature of gameplay and mechanics which trump lore everytime. Because if you don't have a playable enjoyable game whatever race you add is meaningless.
Blizzard needs to feel like they won't be pissing off a large portion of their playerbase. Thats why you need the visual representation of Horde on these forums to give a spit.
Blizzard caring about not pissing off large portions of their playerbase would, in fact, be a welcome change. See: basically every other thread on GD complaining about how Blizzard has pissed off a large portion of the playerbase for some reason or another.
It also assumes the anti-helf side of the argument is the more popular sentiment. We don't always have exact numbers for these things, but in the few times that tallies have been made, these threads tend to have a positive bias in terms of members for or against the idea. The few comments we've had from blues on the situation also indicate that there is broad community support for the idea as well. Obviously you can say the forums only represent a minority of the community, but we have to go based on available evidence. And the evidence is that when these threads arise, more members support this idea than oppose it.
Does that mean that an idea is going to be approved purely because it's popular? Of course not. But an idea with strong community support is going to be considered more seriously than one that is supported by only a few.
And it's plain to see that a lot of people support High Elves as an Allied Race.
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This "you're supporting us just by being here" bs isn't anything, we're showing Blizzard exactly why they should continue to not do it and actually move in the direction of having something be 100% final like killing them off so only void and blood elves remain.
Not much point to that, we'll just start asking for High Elves from an Alternate Timeline that is near identical to the current one with the exception being the High Elves didn't get killed off.
Because Mag'har opened that can of worms.
You're not going to stop the requests. The requests have been going on for over 14 years now. It's a logical addition, it's a requested addition, and now that there is a system that addresses prior issues, nothing is going to prevent it from happening unless Blizzard shuts down the game without ever adding them.
And I will be here until that day asking for them unless they're made playable first. If they're made playable first, I'll be there at that day, enjoying playing my High Elf until the last second the servers are up.
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10/17/2018 05:55 AMPosted by
Mythlor
Of course, since these names are all lore-based, the point of it was to stress that these are the "OG" High Elves that stuck to their traditions and ideologies that the Blood Elves chose to forsake when they underwent a cultural shift post-Arthas.
Nothing changed but the name and the allegiance though. You really aren't changing traditions in the span of decades, particularly for a race that lives for centuries.
Ideology isn't a consideration given that Lorthe'mar has tried to take the Blood Elves back to the Alliance a couple of times already.
Much has changed over centuries though. The high elves we want didn't leave only a few decades ago. They have been separate from quel'thalas for centuries. They are/were citizens of human kingdoms. The blood elves have largely lost their ranger culture with the destruction of their army during the scourge invasion. They have a few fartstriders left but largely the culture now is of casual nobility that is found in silvermoon and its' surrounding villages and estates.
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Please don't use logic. It's like a crucifix to a vampire with the Anti-Helfers.
Come on. We all know that allied races are basically sub races, minus vulpera.
They can't process it, ignore it, don't understand it, and don't know how to reply to it with anything other than their MAGA-like tag lines
I mean people have, but they get ignored. I like high elves, and I see it blatantly happen.
But muh models!
Yea that is a valid argument, because you did get the model already. The issue becomes if you got high elves...there is really nothing Horde can get in return from another model usage.
But muh faction balance!
Is a weak argument and should stop being touted, I agree.
But they already exist!
Technically they do.
But Ion said so!
Which is relevant since he is the lead game director, but Blizzard can go back on.
It still remains the question to the pusher of High Elves:
When they (high elves) were one of the first groups mentioned for the sub race idea system and Allied Races is what resulted...then Alliance played got rendorei; why were the queldorei not implimented?
10/17/2018 07:25 AMPosted by
Alurna
This "you're supporting us just by being here" bs isn't anything, we're showing Blizzard exactly why they should continue to not do it and actually move in the direction of having something be 100% final like killing them off so only void and blood elves remain.
Not much point to that, we'll just start asking for High Elves from an Alternate Timeline that is near identical to the current one with the exception being the High Elves didn't get killed off.
The difference is Draenor from an alternate timeline exists in lore.
10/17/2018 07:25 AMPosted by
Alurna
Not much point to that, we'll just start asking for High Elves from an Alternate Timeline that is near identical to the current one with the exception being the High Elves didn't get killed off.
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Or Blizz goes "those are gone, too" or "never existed" or whatever they want, this isn't a "We can ask forever because let's make things up!" when Blizzard goes "....so? We're the ones making the game."
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I'm just going to pick this out of your post, because I have to ask - why do we need their approval? This thread - and others like it - aren't about trying to persuade people who are against the idea into supporting it. If it was, the forum would be dead and no community-led ideas would ever make it into the game, period.
It's about saying to Blizzard 'Here's an idea, we have evidence of strong community support, we have ideas and concepts on how you might possibly execute this idea that we have, and we have reasons why we feel it's a good addition to the game from both a lore and a game mechanics perspective.'
Because ultimately it's their call. And at the end of the day some random on the internet posting 'this idea is bad because I don't like it' is the kind of post that's going to be glossed over by any of the devs that apparently shadow the forums for ideas.
Because adding in races is a delicate thing. Blizzard isn't blind to the fact that there is a very strong opposition to High Elves. equally or more so that their is support.
How to not alienate and isolate parts of your playerbase 101. By doing nothing and keeping the status quo they keep you playing because in reality for most of you High Elves are not a make or break thing for this game. It might be for the few that post in this thread but Alliance High Elves are not a core feature of gameplay and mechanics which trump lore everytime. Because if you don't have a playable enjoyable game whatever race you add is meaningless.
Blizzard needs to feel like they won't be pissing off a large portion of their playerbase. Thats why you need the visual representation of Horde on these forums to give a spit.
And you think it'll be make or break for someone who doesn't want them but they get added?
I've asked repeatedly the same question in this thread and there's been no answer: HOW DOES ADDING HIGH ELVES TO THE GAME IMPACT ANYONE BUT THE PERSON WHO WANTS TO PLAY A HIGH ELF?
Models? They'll make 'em look different.
Faction Balance? It's already imbalanced ... more people are playing horde than alliance 55%/45% and growing.
Won't be able to tell them apart in a battleground? Haven't noticed a bevy of players crying about trying to kill a Pandaren on the same faction as they are.
Want original and new races? Not what allied races are, sorry. They're reskins of existing races.
Too many elves? So what else do you want to add .... gnomes? humans? dwarves? Where are the threads calling for all these other Alliance races y'all want other than elves? <insert crickets chirping>
There is opposition to High Elves but it is far from RATIONAL opposition and the only reason I can see for it is that the developers want to protect their precious Horde players who predominantly play Blood Elves and will lose their minds over having to debate changing to Alliance because they chose a race regardless of what faction it was on and now it's on both sides.
You can wrap it up in "faction pride" all you want but I think it boils down to y'all are too cheap to think about spending the money to play a decent looking elf on the Alliance side (which you woulda chose in the first place had they been an option) and so you don't want anyone else to play one either.
And I'll tell ya honestly, it might BE make or break for me. I'm massively bored with this expac. There's not one core aspect of the game right now I enjoy ... Azerite armor, Warfronts, Expeditions .... the only thing that COULD excite me about this expac and help me justify my sub is if I got to play as the race I've wanted to play since I saw the first NPC in the game and that race is (you guessed it) A HIGH ELF.
1 Like
10/17/2018 07:25 AMPosted by
Alurna
Not much point to that, we'll just start asking for High Elves from an Alternate Timeline that is near identical to the current one with the exception being the High Elves didn't get killed off.
Or Blizz goes "those are gone, too" or "never existed" or whatever they want, this isn't a "We can ask forever because let's make things up!" when Blizzard goes "....so? We're the ones making the game."[/quote]
Seeing as Draenor exists because of involvement of someone from the current timeline; you would need probably a good reason for a lore character to do something amongst that level of action...
...and justify to players that it's not another WoD
But Ion said so!
Which is relevant since he is the lead game director, but Blizzard can go back on.
It still remains the question to the pusher of High Elves:
Well actually he didn't say no to high elves becoming playable. He said no plans currently in the near term.
Which is relevant since he is the lead game director, but Blizzard can go back on.
It still remains the question to the pusher of High Elves:
Well actually he didn't say no to high elves becoming playable. He said no plans currently in the near term.
Yea it's called a non answer. Most of the time, they mean no
And you think it'll be make or break for someone who doesn't want them but they get added?
Oh ofc not. Myself for example will go on playing the game.
I've asked repeatedly the same question in this thread and there's been no answer: HOW DOES ADDING HIGH ELVES TO THE GAME IMPACT ANYONE BUT THE PERSON WHO WANTS TO PLAY A HIGH ELF?
Models? They'll make 'em look different.
Waving this answer is not a magic cure-all if you don't have a differing model thats viable to someone beyond your standards.
Also you've gotten the answers to it several times you either don't accept it or ignore it. I'm actually terrible at getting what i mean and want to say out on paper. It's a bit hard to coalesce everything for me, which is why i wish i could find those threads from earlier in the year/late last year that had all of my points put into a nice bullet point format.
Faction Balance? It's already imbalanced ... more people are playing horde than alliance 55%/45% and growing.
That's a real issue that can be solved without giving High Elves. More attractive Allied racials in regards to raids/dungeons and 1 free faction swap maybe.
Won't be able to tell them apart in a battleground? Haven't noticed a bevy of players crying about trying to kill a Pandaren on the same faction as they are.
battlegrounds aren't the only place youd see them. I routinely see people bring up Pandas being dual faction as being a stupid idea,or memed about on the forums.
Want original and new races? Not what allied races are, sorry. They're reskins of existing races.
Ok, so just because you have an idea for an Allied race doesn't mean its gonna be implemented. An allied race is only limited by the skeletal structure. Hence Worgen model for Sethrak or Goblin for Vulpera. Both ideal candidates for Allied races yet have no ties to either race lorewise. Hmmm. *thinking*
Too many elves? So what else do you want to add .... gnomes? humans? dwarves? Where are the threads calling for all these other Alliance races y'all want other than elves? <insert crickets chirping>
See the above <yawn>
There is opposition to High Elves but it is far from RATIONAL opposition and the only reason for it is that the developers want to protect their precious Horde players who predominantly play Blood Elves and will lose their minds over having to debate changing to Alliance because they chose a race regardless of what faction it was on and now it's on both sides.
Subjective as i think a bunch of you are irrational.
You can wrap it up in "faction pride" all you want but it boils down to y'all are too cheap to think about spending the money to play a decent looking elf on the Alliance side and so you don't want anyone else to play one either.
Wtf? How am i meant to counter this? By flaunting how many tokens someone buy's per month just for the gold? Dude, I'm a millionaire in game i could buy race changes out the wazoo. What a stupid thing for you to say.
The High Elves of the Alliance are quite numerous
Prove this.
Archimonde destroyed the original Dalaran, presumably killing most of the inhabitants.
Arthas killed 90% of all Quel'dorei leaving 10% who almost all changed their name in remembrance of the dead. (Which is not a bad thing or reason to hate that segment of the race.)
The high elves we want didn't leave only a few decades ago.
Super racist. It has to be the "correct" High Elf. Any other High Elf is tainted and must be avoided or killed on sight for even presuming to like anyone not Nelf, Dwarf, Human, Gnome, Draenei.
Like saying you can't be African American unless you are jet black, have zero caucasians in your blood line, and are "ghetto".
They are/were citizens of human kingdoms.
Many of which were destroyed by Arthas, including Lordaeron and Dalaran and also wouldn't make those remaining in the other Alliance kingdoms culturally distinct unless you think High Elves in Ironforge would be hanging in bars tipping back ale and growing long lustrous beards.
Going that route would also be blurring the line between race and nationality. People from every race hang out in Dalaran so lets just remove factions entirely because that Dalaran gnome is totally evil and that Dalaran Orc is super nice.
The blood elves have largely lost their ranger culture with the destruction of their army during the scourge invasion.
Rangers constitute the military arm not the culture. Look at Quel'thalas art from before and after the Scourge. It was a big pretty modern city, not a bunch of elves in tents like Night Elves. Quel'dorei, like the original Elves under Azshara and those of the Broken Isles constitute more advanced metropolitan races.
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Well actually he didn't say no to high elves becoming playable. He said no plans currently in the near term.
Yea it's called a non answer. Most of the time, they mean no
It was surely indication that he was not personally in favor of the idea, but it still isn't a "100% never going to happen" no
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Well actually he didn't say no to high elves becoming playable. He said no plans currently in the near term.
Yea it's called a non answer. Most of the time, they mean no
Until it is definitive than it means what it says. Non answer or not.
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Well actually he didn't say no to high elves becoming playable. He said no plans currently in the near term.
Yea it's called a non answer. Most of the time, they mean no
Bingo! They are dancing around it because they don't want to commit when leaving people in limbo has a more desirable effect.
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Yea it's called a non answer. Most of the time, they mean no
It was surely indication that he was not personally in favor of the idea, but it still isn't a "100% never going to happen" no
That is what I mean, things can change. But for now the forecast is very unlikely.
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Yea it's called a non answer. Most of the time, they mean no
Until it is definitive than it means what it says. Non answer or not.
No it's called "we dont want to piss off people by saying no"
It's why in the QandA the death knight starting zone question was not a flat no. Sure, they could change it....but really?