10/14/2018 05:54 PMPosted by
Flôssy
10/14/2018 04:49 PMPosted by
Calero
While this would make the loud group of players very happy, it would also probably tip the faction imbalance into a really bad place that would be difficult if not impossible to correct.
I agree it would tip the faction balance and it does steal thunder, but it would not be impossible or all that difficult to balance aesthetically at least. Giving Horde Undead Night Elves for example. However I don't think it is that great of an idea by itself.
As many people who want High Elves this implementation it would cause a lot more people, who are even more vocal, to be crying for more non elven races. This may only be my opinion but I think the majority will not find simple ol' High Elves all that intriguing(like me), same with Undead Night Elves (if they actually went that route).
Blizzard should know this so I'd hope they'd introduce a lot more options for those players who are already satisfied with the elven variants in place, either instead of, or on top of a High Elf implementation.
I wanted to comment on the middle paragraph here.
As much as the forum posters and other social media peeps like to make it seem like "there's so many elves! already!" the stats show us that at lvl cap, Void Elves are the 4th most popular race in the short time they've been available.
They make up 7% of Alliance on US side while Blood Elves still hold a massive grasp on Horde popularity with 38% BE on Horde US at lvl cap (120).
In Legion Horde BE pop used to be 40% at lvl cap (110).
Therefore, this automatically shows that Void Elves didn't hamper Blood Elves population much at all (at most 2% grabbed, if even that), and that people who are making Alliance characters are making a LOT of Void Elves, enough to shoot them up to 4th popular status.
So people just need to come to terms with some things: Elves are really popular, they're inherently a race designed to be aesthetically pleasing to the lowest common denominator.
This isn't to say that Blizzard should only keep adding Elves, nor has the High Elf Request ever been about adding High Elves IMMEDIATELY.
Just that I don't believe having another Elf option is going to be seen with much hatred, considering the fact that the most recent Elf race on Alliance has shot up in popularity so so quickly.
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Glad to see you guys are back to fighting the good fight. I would love my high elf someday! /support
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Introducing: Night elf heritage armor - HIGH ELVES!
I think the undead Night Elves thing in Darkshore might end up being the counterpart to Alliance High Elves. It would actually make a lot of sense.
Alliance gets a core Horde race that has been visually overhauled with different lore, and Horde gets a core Alliance race in undead Night Elves with red eyes that have become Horde members and go down a different path. In essence, making it a perfect trade.
I just wana say this, not for the hell of it, but moreso to have my voice heard.
I would like High Elves. They sound like a more bad !@# version of blood elves. I would totally play one.
Someday? Maybe?
--
I think in another thread I might have said no. But the more I think about it the more it doesn't make sense. How would more elves hurt WoW, in what way? More options is always better, especially for races, in my opinion. What they've done with allied races is great, but it's not enough for how old WoW is. There should be a lot more options considering this game is like what...almost 15 years old?
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10/14/2018 11:59 PMPosted by
Gulrum
I think the undead Night Elves thing in Darkshore might end up being the counterpart to Alliance High Elves. It would actually make a lot of sense.
Alliance gets a core Horde race that has been visually overhauled with different lore, and Horde gets a core Alliance race in undead Night Elves with red eyes that have become Horde members and go down a different path. In essence, making it a perfect trade.
It's a possibility. I'd prefer San'layn though - unless they make the Night Elves into San'layn lol.
Undead Elves have been requested by the Horde for a while - releasing them with High Elves I think would be awesome. Especially if there's a Silvermoon Warfront then that's just perfect imo.
10/15/2018 02:58 AMPosted by
Xyaa
10/14/2018 11:59 PMPosted by
Gulrum
I think the undead Night Elves thing in Darkshore might end up being the counterpart to Alliance High Elves. It would actually make a lot of sense.
Alliance gets a core Horde race that has been visually overhauled with different lore, and Horde gets a core Alliance race in undead Night Elves with red eyes that have become Horde members and go down a different path. In essence, making it a perfect trade.
It's a possibility. I'd prefer San'layn though - unless they make the Night Elves into San'layn lol.
Undead Elves have been requested by the Horde for a while - releasing them with High Elves I think would be awesome. Especially if there's a Silvermoon Warfront then that's just perfect imo.
I think that is exactly what they are going to do. Remember, the male San'layn already use a Night Elf skeleton even though they have Blood Elf features.
Also in the first wave, Horde got the lore-rich Nightborne while Alliance got the new creation of Void Elves. I think this time Alliance gets the lore-rich High Elves and Horde will get the new creation of Night Elven San'layn.
I mean, doesn't this raise an eyebrow or two? (spoilers)
https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/794851.jpg
https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/794852.jpg
10/14/2018 07:36 PMPosted by
Mythlor
While I appreciate your diplomatic stance, the fact is that Horde-only players are not the target market here and never have been. It's WoW players who are ultimately expected to play both factions.
And regardless "Horde" opinions don't exist, because there is no such thing as Horde. You can have an opinion based on the perspective of only being a Horde player, but not only is that an admission of bias, it's also admitting that you have no real investment in the future of the Alliance and therefore have no purposeful input in this discussion because it's an ALLIANCE allied race.
You know, looking back on what I said, I have to agree with you. I'm gonna retract my statement.
How would you guys see High Elf Death Knights implemented?
Honestly I don't believe that there needs to be any work done for this. High Elves were around during this time and just as active as the other races. Goblins and Worgen were added an expansion later and retroactively allowed to be death knights because I assume it could be easily surmised that they were killed around this point in time.
All the Allied races came to become involved with the continent only after the events of WotLK (with the exception of Dark Iron but they were holed up in their mountain).
I believe you could easily play it off like the other races. They just died in that past time frame.
10/14/2018 07:50 PMPosted by
Mythlor
I will admit to failing to heed my own advice of not responding to circular argumentation but it's a Sunday night and I'm super unproductive so there's that... lol
Here's an attempt to bring this back to heel.
How would you guys see High Elf Death Knights implemented?
Personally I'd like to see Kol'tira say "screw this" and ditch Sylvanas' Horde. Then maybe he and Thassarian could run off in the sunset or something.
On a more serious note, maybe some sort of exodus from Silvermoon before a warfront including some of their martial Death Knights? Or maybe just ones who never returned to Silvermoon? Freshly risen ones?
I don't think it's even possible without a new model either.
I can see koltira leaving the horde. Sylvanas did keep him as a prisoner, and I assume he was tortured as well. Maybe he'll bring some high elf death knights with him and ask thassarian to ask Anduin to let them join.
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10/14/2018 07:50 PMPosted by
Mythlor
I will admit to failing to heed my own advice of not responding to circular argumentation but it's a Sunday night and I'm super unproductive so there's that... lol
Here's an attempt to bring this back to heel.
How would you guys see High Elf Death Knights implemented?
Personally I'd like to see Kol'tira say "screw this" and ditch Sylvanas' Horde. Then maybe he and Thassarian could run off in the sunset or something.
On a more serious note, maybe some sort of exodus from Silvermoon before a warfront including some of their martial Death Knights? Or maybe just ones who never returned to Silvermoon? Freshly risen ones?
I don't think it's even possible without a new model either.
I can see koltira leaving the horde. Sylvanas did keep him as a prisoner, and I assume he was tortured as well. Maybe he'll bring some high elf death knights with him and ask thassarian to ask Anduin to let them join.
Iam going to be honest, I think we need to try and differentiate High elves from Blood elves as much as possible, even though lore wise DKs make perfect sense for High elves, we could leave Death knights to the Horde. I’d rather see High elves take on a class that Blood elves can’t. This helps calm fear of Horde losing players to the alliance, If they can’t be Warlocks, Death Knights and Demon Hunters.
10/14/2018 07:50 PMPosted by
Mythlor
I will admit to failing to heed my own advice of not responding to circular argumentation but it's a Sunday night and I'm super unproductive so there's that... lol
Here's an attempt to bring this back to heel.
How would you guys see High Elf Death Knights implemented?
Personally I'd like to see Kol'tira say "screw this" and ditch Sylvanas' Horde. Then maybe he and Thassarian could run off in the sunset or something.
On a more serious note, maybe some sort of exodus from Silvermoon before a warfront including some of their martial Death Knights? Or maybe just ones who never returned to Silvermoon? Freshly risen ones?
I don't think it's even possible without a new model either.
I can see koltira leaving the horde. Sylvanas did keep him as a prisoner, and I assume he was tortured as well. Maybe he'll bring some high elf death knights with him and ask thassarian to ask Anduin to let them join.
That wouldn't make sense, he's a blood elf and he's probably sticking to the archeus after the DK champion rescued him. All blood elf DKs have glowing blue eyes just like the other races.
Okay I want to rehash and quickly address some matters I've seen mentioned on the last few pages in a concise manner.
High Elves blur factions lines.
Nightborne do this as well. Lore doesn't matter much here as it's clearly not being acknowledged when this argument is being used. Thematically and aesthetically, the NB still have a lot in common with the Night Elves as they were Night Elves as they were pre-sundering and infringe directly on the Highborne aspect of Night Elves.
They are also highly visually similar to the point where player models are literally smoothed out Night Elves with a different stance.
High Elves would destroy Horde population
The factions are already roughly 60:40 Horde to Alliance currently. If half the Blood Elf population were migrate to the Alliance, the populations would be balanced, almost perfectly. Even if all of the Blood Elves transferred, population balance would nearly be a reverse of what we have now.
And there ladies and gentlemen is your worst case scenario, as per the oppositions projections.
Half Elves are okay, but High Elves are completely unacceptable.
These are arbitrary and subjective rules made by opposing players. This isn't an entirely invalid suggestion though and a few of us are fine with it, at least part way. We've mentioned Dalaranian High Elves with Human lineage as well as including Half-Elf customization options for High Elves.
And although we appreciate constructive suggestions from the opposition, we're not all going to universally accept it as is our prerogative but I'm willing to humor it, to an extent.
This would muddle PvP as per silhouettes.
As others have mentioned, nameplates, red names and hostility should be a dead giveaway already. Then you have the fact that there are Pandaren, Void Elves and Nightborne, so this 'problem' has already been addressed for some time. You can also face members of your own faction in Arenas as well.
This is insensitive to the Horde.
I'm really not sure how true this statement actually is. There are actually a lot of Horde toons in support of High Elves just as there are some Alliance toons posting in opposition. Then you have the fact that many people play both factions, so the minority of the playerbase that posts on the forums is a total crapshoot.
This is also highly subjective as Horde players views vary wildly. When subraces were still only an idea, I was just excited the Horde could get another Elf via the Nightborne so I lobbied just as hard for a Night Elf vairant for the Horde as I do for High Elves.
I was also told this infringes on faction identity and that I was stupid for actually suggesting an even trade.
The Horde would be losing something
This would maybe be true if Blood Elves joined the Alliance and every new and existing character was forcibly faction changed, but Blood Elves will still be there at the end of the day in all of their glory. High Elf themes continue to exist in the Alliance to this day. Literally nothing would change.
As for players, many play both factions anyway and if they want out of the Horde bad enough, lack of playable High Elves certainly isn't stopping them from faction changing.
High Elves would also be heavily gated while Blood Elves are available to everyone, even without a sub. Blood Elves are also getting their own heritage set and have everything else if not more than High Elves would ever have.
Now I'm not really looking to have a debate on this spanning several pages long. but I did feel the need to give my own two cents on the matter.
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Where the hell are you pulling 60:40 from? Best I've seen (with inaccurate metrics) is something I've seen flying around is around 55:45 at worst. Might be 53:47.
Only Blizzard has truly accurate numbers and metrics. There's a lot to be considered like are these numbers from the same account, is this character played the most, or are they the most geared and most likely a main? That's just to name a few.
Where the hell are you pulling 60:40 from? Best I've seen (with inaccurate metrics) is something I've seen flying around is around 55:45 at worst. Might be 53:47.
Only Blizzard has truly accurate numbers and metrics. There's a lot to be considered like are these numbers from the same account, is this character played the most, or are they the most geared and most likely a main? That's just to name a few.
Realistically the population is roughly 55 Horde, 45 Alliance. This only includes capped characters though, it could be that there are more Horde alts than Alliance
But if this is even somewhat accurate, a 10% difference in the player base is substantial. Not nearly as bad as the split was back in Vanilla, but we also need to take into account the fact that an overwhelming amount of top players are Horde
Overall I don't think High Elves will do anything to player population, they would neither help nor worsen the issue. In all likelihood they would just reduce the amount of people who play humans and Night Elves on the Alliance. I can't say for sure that High Elves would bring back a large amount of subs, but I know they would keep me subbed for a lot longer
So we know that Blizzard, as a company is motivated by money. To keep making money. It's business.
So heres the plan:
All of you who are dying and craving your High Elves, unsub right now. This moment in time, do it. With all of you and the huge pool of High Elf worshipers that there are who demand High Elves, it should drop their subcount low enough that they'll HAVE to bend to your demands and put High Elves in the game.
So we know that Blizzard, as a company is motivated by money. To keep making money. It's business.
So heres the plan:
All of you who are dying and craving your High Elves, unsub right now. This moment in time, do it. With all of you and the huge pool of High Elf worshipers that there are who demand High Elves, it should drop their subcount low enough that they'll HAVE to bend to your demands and put High Elves in the game.
I know it isn't saying much, but I personally know a few individuals who unsubbed after Ion's infamous answer regarding High Elves. They left for multiple reasons, but for them that was the final nail in the coffin
I would be curious to see if it would affect Blizz though. We'd finally found out just how popular High Elves are
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...
I can see koltira leaving the horde. Sylvanas did keep him as a prisoner, and I assume he was tortured as well. Maybe he'll bring some high elf death knights with him and ask thassarian to ask Anduin to let them join.
Iam going to be honest, I think we need to try and differentiate High elves from Blood elves as much as possible, even though lore wise DKs make perfect sense for High elves, we could leave Death knights to the Horde. I’d rather see High elves take on a class that Blood elves can’t. This helps calm fear of Horde losing players to the alliance, If they can’t be Warlocks, Death Knights and Demon Hunters.
The only classes that aren't available for blood elves are shaman and druid, and those classes don't make sense for high elves. If warlock and demon hunter aren't available for high elves but death knights are, it won't cause a massive imbalance. Besides, we need to draw people to the alliance.
@Althenar
High Elf druids/shamans could make sense of Blizz decided to write it like that, there's been countless suggestions for this implementation that would make sense. Its essentially all head canon for now though
I think Alliance High Elf DK's probably wouldn't be playable, as they would likely be slain High Elves who died defending Quel'thalas when Arthas sacked it, and we know for a fact that those DK's joined the Horde. Then again, Wargen are able to be DK's, so anything is possible. They could be drawn from Silver Covenant members who were slain during Wotlk
They know SOME players have a high demand for High Elves and they are prob reading posts here.
Fixed that for you.
I honestly don't understand why there's this constant desire to essentially look and act like other races in the game. IF they gave in and put in Helves, you could stand next to a Belf and if the text over their head wasn't orange, you'd really not be able to tell them apart. Personally, I'd rather choose to look unique if I could, hence why I'd rather Blizz focus on that and not caving in on their stance of "not at this time".
If they choose to add them next expansion, or the one after, that's fine, as their development would be accounted for ahead of time. However, I'd rather them finish out this xpac like they planned, and not have to squeeze in Helf development in, potentially taking away from other parts of the game. There's only so many resources and time at Blizzard during an expansion cycle.
Again, I have absolutely no interest in playing a High Elf, but a thread like this even existing is enough evidence for me to support them becoming playable for the Alliance.
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