The Unofficial High Elf Discussion Megathread

10/14/2018 06:43 PMPosted by Grabmytotem

What a load of horsestuff. Not the target market? You forget existing horde players opinions exist and matter. thats the entire problem with you, you are so dismissive of how anyone else feels. You are all about "how can i get what i want?" and you dont care what lore/game/players feelings you run over.


Horde? Who said anything about Horde?

Again with the tribalism.

You don't play Alliance =/= You are Horde, because most Horde players also play Alliance. Most Alliance players also play Horde. All players aren't actually Horde or Alliance, as those two entities don't exist.

And yes if you don't play Alliance at all, you are not the target market, because High Elves would literally have no bearing on you as a Horde-only player outside of the story which would be done by NPCs whether they are playable or not just like they have been since Warcraft II.

And since Blizzard gave Horde access to Highmountain and Nightborne despite the Alliance explicitly working with them (lul Lightforged and nonexistent Void Elves), I'm fairly certain they appeal to specific markets when they do these things irrespective of what others might feel.


Thought you were done with me?

That's all I'm going to exchange with you.
10/14/2018 07:21 PMPosted by Grabmytotem


Thought you were done with me?


Oh we're playing this game.

Here's your quote.

As i went on to say pro-High Elf players opinions matter. Again, just typical dismissal of anyones thoughts but your own. It doesn't matter to you how pro-High Elf players feel.


Notice the hypocrisy?

Difference between you and others is that what pro-High Elf players want is an experience that only Blizzard can provide but what you want is to deny that experience (as if you even have that power to begin with). And fact is, that particular opinion is pointless because it has absolutely no benefit to Blizzard, and a far stronger one would be to discuss what experience YOU would want within its own context.

And surprise surprise, Allied Race enthusiasts can all discuss the merits of their own desires without hating on others. They aren't mutually exclusive.
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10/14/2018 07:19 PMPosted by Grabmytotem
10/14/2018 07:13 PMPosted by Xyaa
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No, Horde players would not be the target market for High Elves. The Alliance would be - that's the faction they'd be going on.

It's odd saying Horde players are the target market for High Elves, considering you won't be playing High Elves anyway. You'll be fighting them. Hell, you won't be seeing many around unless you PvP or are playing on the Alliance.

I don't see how the Horde is the target market for High Elves at all. If it were the case, can you explain how the Alliance is the target market for Mag'har Orcs?


As i went on to say Horde players opinions matter. Again, just typical dismissal of anyones thoughts but your own. It doesn't matter to you how Horde feels. And what about players who play both but side with antis in this argument?

Then those players won't play as high elves. It's simple really. And it's clear that you have no interest in playing as a high elf so why do you care so much? If you don't want to play as one then don't, no one's forcing you.
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I think the main points that are trying to be made here are as follows;
  • Horde opinions matter (as do all players)
  • If you play strictly as horde and have no interest in Alliance, there may logically be less incentive to contribute to this thread unless you have valid concerns as to why the idea of Helfs being introduced is bad for the game.
10/14/2018 07:33 PMPosted by Arisran
I think the main points that are trying to be made here are as follows;
  • Horde opinions matter (as do all players)
  • If you play strictly as horde and have no interest in Alliance, there may logically be less incentive to contribute to this thread unless you have valid concerns as to why the idea of Helfs being introduced is bad for the game.


While I appreciate your diplomatic stance, the fact is that Horde-only players are not the target market here and never have been. It's WoW players who are ultimately expected to play both factions.

And regardless "Horde" opinions don't exist, because there is no such thing as Horde. You can have an opinion based on the perspective of only being a Horde player, but not only is that an admission of bias, it's also admitting that you have no real investment in the future of the Alliance and therefore have no purposeful input in this discussion because it's an ALLIANCE allied race.
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10/14/2018 07:19 PMPosted by Grabmytotem
10/14/2018 07:13 PMPosted by Xyaa
...

No, Horde players would not be the target market for High Elves. The Alliance would be - that's the faction they'd be going on.

It's odd saying Horde players are the target market for High Elves, considering you won't be playing High Elves anyway. You'll be fighting them. Hell, you won't be seeing many around unless you PvP or are playing on the Alliance.

I don't see how the Horde is the target market for High Elves at all. If it were the case, can you explain how the Alliance is the target market for Mag'har Orcs?


As i went on to say Horde players opinions matter. Again, just typical dismissal of anyones thoughts but your own. It doesn't matter to you how Horde feels. And what about players who play both but side with antis in this argument?


Last i checked i was questioning your thoughts, not dismissing them. I don't understand your reasoning, and I'd like you to explain.

How are Mag'har Orcs targeted to Alliance Players? - If the Horde are the target market for High Elves, as you, yourself stated.
10/14/2018 07:21 PMPosted by Grabmytotem


Thought you were done with me?


Oh we're playing this game.

Here's your quote.

As i went on to say pro-High Elf players opinions matter. Again, just typical dismissal of anyones thoughts but your own. It doesn't matter to you how pro-High Elf players feel.


Notice the hypocrisy?

Difference between you and others is that what pro-High Elf players want is an experience that only Blizzard can provide but what you want is to deny that experience (as if you even have that power to begin with). And fact is, that particular opinion is pointless because it has absolutely no benefit to Blizzard, and a far stronger one would be to discuss what experience YOU would want within its own context.

And surprise surprise, Allied Race enthusiasts can all discuss the merits of their own desires without hating on others. They aren't mutually exclusive.


I mean if you are gonna say stuff demeaning like "thats all ill exchange with you" then stick to your guns dude. Don't half bake it cus it makes you look silly.

Yes, i would deny you the high elf experience for reasons we've gone over ad nauseum. I've gone in for the compromise of Half Elves so really the only problem i see here is Pro High Elfers. Let me repeat this again and again, What benefits blizzard is two things. 1. not pissing off half a userbase in order to please a small pocket of fanatics and 2. You can't bribe your way into making bad decisions. No Helf in 14 years? Hmmmmm i wonder why if its such a cash cow as you lot claim.
10/14/2018 07:16 PMPosted by Joyeuse
As an aside: Amusingly, Alliance players are the "target market" for the game's implementation of Blood Elves.

I've seen you on a lot of high elf threads. Are you in the high elf discord?
10/14/2018 07:36 PMPosted by Xyaa
<span class="truncated">...</span>

As i went on to say Horde players opinions matter. Again, just typical dismissal of anyones thoughts but your own. It doesn't matter to you how Horde feels. And what about players who play both but side with antis in this argument?


Last i checked i was questioning your thoughts, not dismissing them. I don't understand your reasoning, and I'd like you to explain.

How are Mag'har Orcs targeted to Alliance Players? - If the Horde are the target market for High Elves, as you, yourself stated.


Because Blizzard is not only looking for an echo chamber of Pro-Helfers when they decide this stuff. Also people play both sides. Do we just sit them out of the equation? No their opinions matter as well.

Anyways i'm off for the night, good night.
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Last i checked i was questioning your thoughts, not dismissing them. I don't understand your reasoning, and I'd like you to explain.

How are Mag'har Orcs targeted to Alliance Players? - If the Horde are the target market for High Elves, as you, yourself stated.


Because Blizzard is not only looking for an echo chamber of Pro-Helfers when they decide this stuff. Also people play both sides. Do we just sit them out of the equation? No their opinions matter as well.

Anyways i'm off for the night, good night.

That doesn't even answer her question.... anyway, goodnight.
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10/14/2018 07:38 PMPosted by Grabmytotem

Yes, i would deny you the high elf experience


But you have no power to do that. What you're doing is the equivalent of going to an icecream store you like and telling customers that they aren't allowed to eat the chocolate because you don't like it.

small pocket of fanatics.


We're all fanatics here buddy.

10/14/2018 07:38 PMPosted by Grabmytotem
No Helf in 14 years? Hmmmmm i wonder why if its such a cash cow as you lot claim.


Really? You're asking why factions that were previously deemed too similar to existing races to be standalone base races before the implementation of Allied Races aren't suddenly all implemented at once?

Look. Despite my apparently current weakness in resisting response, here's my last one done out of empathy.

Stop thinking about this as an us vs them. There are no sides here. Stop putting down others in order to make your voice seem louder. It really isn't.

Frankly I view the entire anti-High Elf response as nothing more of a symptom of the IRL tribalism in American politics and it's just sad.
I will admit to failing to heed my own advice of not responding to circular argumentation but it's a Sunday night and I'm super unproductive so there's that... lol

Here's an attempt to bring this back to heel.

How would you guys see High Elf Death Knights implemented?

Personally I'd like to see Kol'tira say "screw this" and ditch Sylvanas' Horde. Then maybe he and Thassarian could run off in the sunset or something.

On a more serious note, maybe some sort of exodus from Silvermoon before a warfront including some of their martial Death Knights? Or maybe just ones who never returned to Silvermoon? Freshly risen ones?

I don't think it's even possible without a new model either.
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Last i checked i was questioning your thoughts, not dismissing them. I don't understand your reasoning, and I'd like you to explain.

How are Mag'har Orcs targeted to Alliance Players? - If the Horde are the target market for High Elves, as you, yourself stated.


Because Blizzard is not only looking for an echo chamber of Pro-Helfers when they decide this stuff. Also people play both sides. Do we just sit them out of the equation? No their opinions matter as well.

Anyways i'm off for the night, good night.


The community has even thought of concepts to take into consideration the Anti Crowd. Unfortunately though, they're ignored for the most part - if anything it's the Antis who dismiss our thoughts and concepts - take for example the "you just want Blood Elves with Blue Eyes" argument, i can tell you now, those people haven't gone and looked at our concepts.

You aren't also answering my question. How are Mag'har Orcs the target market for Alliance-only players? - if the Horde-only players are the target market for High Elves.

Sorry if i may have come across as a little hostile, it wasn't my intention, i wish you a good sleep though. Good night.
10/14/2018 07:54 PMPosted by Xyaa

How are Mag'har Orcs the target market for Alliance players? - if the Horde is the target market for High Elves.


I would strongly advise against using the term "Alliance player" and rather use "Alliance-only", because Alliance players can be targeted by Maghar as the same players can also play Horde.

While the implication is obvious to many, it probably isn't to others, and I suspect this person in particular.
10/14/2018 07:50 PMPosted by Mythlor
I will admit to failing to heed my own advice of not responding to circular argumentation but it's a Sunday night and I'm super unproductive so there's that... lol


His stance he literally just wants to deny us High Elves (like he could do that...) just because. There is no conversation to be had there.

His main idea is half Elves without Glowing Eyes and Long Ear. Literally Skinnier Humans...

This right after we got fat humans...

10/14/2018 07:50 PMPosted by Mythlor
How would you guys see High Elf Death Knights implemented?


I personally see them not going through with Allied Race DK changes because it's too few and far between on the examples.
10/14/2018 08:05 PMPosted by Drede

I personally see them not going through with Allied Race DK changes because it's too few and far between on the examples.


How terribly uninspired :P
10/14/2018 08:03 PMPosted by Mythlor

How are Mag'har Orcs the target market for Alliance players? - if the Horde is the target market for High Elves.


I would strongly advise against using the term "Alliance player" and rather use "Alliance-only", because Alliance players can be targeted by Maghar as the same players can also play Horde.

While the implication is obvious to many, it probably isn't to others, and I suspect this person in particular.


Thanks! Changed it.
It just seems like bullies trying to play "keep away" with High Elves.

"No, I have no logically consistent reason as to why I say no, I just enjoy being a bully."
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...

Oh we're playing this game.

Here's your quote.
...

Notice the hypocrisy?

Difference between you and others is that what pro-High Elf players want is an experience that only Blizzard can provide but what you want is to deny that experience (as if you even have that power to begin with). And fact is, that particular opinion is pointless because it has absolutely no benefit to Blizzard, and a far stronger one would be to discuss what experience YOU would want within its own context.

And surprise surprise, Allied Race enthusiasts can all discuss the merits of their own desires without hating on others. They aren't mutually exclusive.


I mean if you are gonna say stuff demeaning like "thats all ill exchange with you" then stick to your guns dude. Don't half bake it cus it makes you look silly.

Yes, i would deny you the high elf experience for reasons we've gone over ad nauseum. I've gone in for the compromise of Half Elves so really the only problem i see here is Pro High Elfers. Let me repeat this again and again, What benefits blizzard is two things. 1. not pissing off half a userbase in order to please a small pocket of fanatics and 2. You can't bribe your way into making bad decisions. No Helf in 14 years? Hmmmmm i wonder why if its such a cash cow as you lot claim.
Ok your last two sentences are silly. I just watched the ClassiCast today that had Vanilla WoW Developer Kevin Jordan (this was the guy in charge of class tuning all 27 specs back then).

Starts at 01:04:58 : https://www.twitch.tv/videos/322800595

The question came up what was the deal with the Night Elf wielding Warglaives in the Game Case pamphlet thingy, his answer?

That at the time their idea of "Hero Classes" thinking was of giving Night Elf Fury Warriors a sequence of quests as way to "transform his looks and abilities" into becoming full-fledged Demon Hunters

This ended up not going through NOT because of any "popularity reasons" (as we know DHs are one of the more popular classes in today's WoW environment) but due to at the time it was a very specific Race-Class combination (IE content that can't be experienced by everyone in a time where they needed to prioritize content availability for everyone).

They even wanted to add in DHs in TBC but the technology for what they wanted to do with the DH wasn't there yet.

Then in MoP one of the design guys wanted the Demonology Warlock spec to play like a "God of War" style gameplay where you'd be jumping in and out of combat.

Lo and behold by the time Legion came out, all their ideas for the DH came about in a very well executed way. Blizzard is prone to changing their mind/iterating on their ideas, that's how someone stays creative. Especially when multiple times it's easy to see how often they plan something internally only for that idea to end up changing later or being incredibly modified.

So this idea of "if it's so popular it would've already been put in" is misguided, because we don't really know the reasons for why something isn't getting put in at the moment. Even if Blizzard gives reasons for why something isn't in the game now, doesn't mean their perspective can't change later. They have an internal priority list that none of us are privy to.

Especially if they leave the door open with a "anything's possible" unlike say Pathfinder where they repeatedly have said it's here to stay multiple times.

We as players can only let our wants be known.

But it is true, that denying the inclusion of something adds nothing to Blizzard's game. This doesn't mean they have to add every single request ever, but if your sole argument is that you're only going to be satisfied by denying content that a portion of the playerbase wants, then that's automatically a loss for Blizzard.

You're essentially saying, "hey don't add this content that people would give you extra money for (in form of race/faction changes) on top of their regular amount so that I can continue enjoying the game as it is now and giving you the same regular amount of money I've always been giving you."

It's not as if you're getting something added into the game by keeping High Elves out.
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Sorry for my absence, i've been busy since expansion launch.

Anyways, as usual i'm here to show my willingly support for playable High Elves!

Fourteen years Blizzard cmon, it's about damn time.
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