They are Blood Elves, going Horde and renaming themselves means they no longer identify as High Elves anymore.
Posting this just to keep the thread going, btw.
Arenât magâhar just orcs with a different name and different skin colors? They arenât a separate race.
Arenât lightforged draenei just draenei with an adjective added to their name and different eye colors? They arenât a separate race.
Arenât void elves just blood elves with a different name and different skin color? They arenât a separate race.
Arenât kul tirans just humans with a different name and fat? They arenât a separate race.
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So, if a Void Elf is a Blood Elf, can they go home to Silvermoon and reclaim their home? Their possessions? Their right to citizenship and all that entails? Can a High Elf?
Also consider the hypothetical that a 10,000 year old Nightborne wants to be legally considered a Night Elf. Or that a High Elf wants to be considered a Night Elf because technically their parents were Night Elves.
This is where the distinction between the groups starts to blur between âracialâ and political. Because while technically all of the above cases should theoretically be able to do just that, we know that they donât and that that kind of change is impossible because âraceâ, in Warcraft is about more than biology or lineage. Itâs a combination of factors.
The broad picture of combined factors of identity that may or may not include biology, culture, diplomacy, cosmology etc. defines High Elves as distinct from High Elves. It defines Void Elves as distinct from Blood Elves. It defines Nightborne as distinct from Night Elves. It defines Kul Tirans as distinct from Stormwind Humans. It defines Magâhar as distinct from green Orcs. It defines Lightforged Draenei as distinct from Draenei, and it defines Highmountain Tauren as distinct from Bloodhoof Tauren.
Race, in Warcraft, is an umbrella term that denotes distinction of a group through a combination of various traits (including biology, culture, affiliation, cosmology and identity).
So as far as Warcraftâs use of the term race is concerned, Blood Elves and High Elves are not the same race.
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To make it short & simple NO. They have a shared history and were one people until multiple splits from the Kingdom of Quelthalas happened and the bulk of the Elves in Silvermoon were killed on the Scourges march to the Sunwell to resurrect KaelâThuzad. But have since been different âracesâ since that time.
We call Humans from different nations different races irl I can see the same applying to the game as well at least such has been the case thus far in Warcraft.
you are correct. the lore and devs state this
the alliance high elves are nowhere to be found in BFA(extinct finally?), seemingly replaced by void elves
high elves are blood elves now anyway
the past, present and future of the high elven lore belongs to the blood elves, the original High Elves that changed their name to honor their fallen
we have had playable high elves for years for all intents and purposes. i suspect the people who state otherwise are those who just want to play as pale pretty elves on the alliance
Except as Shield Mages on the Airships, coordinating the Portals in Boralus, and as a Island Expedition Team. But sure, for whatever reason the SC is sitting this one out, it must be they are going extinct.
That not everyone did that must really bother you. The Alliance High Elves are also heirs of the legacy, and no matter ho much it hurts you it doesnât change that.
This is simply because you donât understand e ant the High Elves that didnât become Blood Elves and ultimately never joined the Horde. People caring about faction affiliation in a game about faction war? More likely than you think.
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Well, they are a hybrid. Also very interesting that they are labeled as âKul tiranâ and not âKul tiran Humanâ In the tooltips-
Horde player accuses us of wanting to be pale pretty elf on Alliance while also being obsessed with being a pale pretty elf on the Horde.
Really sounds like projecting if you ask me. ![:thinking:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/thinking.png?v=6" ":thinking:")
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Thatâs one of the big cognitive dissonances. Like they are calling us shallow for wanting âPale blonde High Elvesâ posting from the pale blonde avatars. Itâs a total self own.
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I say let it lapse.
Legion was the only expansion since Vanilla where I was subbed the entire way through with no breaks.
Iâm of the opinion one should vote with their wallet, so if youâre sitting at login deciding why you should hit âEnter Worldâ, or posting more on the forums than playing the game, from my experience itâs better to lapse it, take a break until 8.2 and save a few bucks.
Unrelated: Use your sub savings to pick up Risk of Rain 2 because itâs amazing.
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It really is projecting, the defensiveness about this âhigh elf heritageâ that they think the Blood Elves in the actual game care about, which they donât, coupled with thinking that Blood Elves still identify as High Elves, which they donât.
It really shows how some Blood Elf players from my experience, really are closeted Alliance players. They want the Alliance identity and themes for themselves and moved over to the Horde, because right now most people are playing Horde and the Horde has the âhip edgy coolâ aesthetic while getting to have pretty elves in it. Itâs classic âhave your cake and eat it tooâ mentality while the other side starves.
Blood Elf players should just enjoy the themes that actually tie Blood Elves to the Horde, that is that they move on from their High Elf background and forge a new path, revolutionizing their culture away from Alliance-loyalist elves, instead of using Alliance-flavored arguments that donât apply to Blood Elves at all just to deny people from requesting a long established traditional ally.
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Eh, IDK. To me it just reads as not wanting to share.
It might seem reductive, but itâs pretty much it, and itâs not like there is no nuance to the notion of desiring exclusivity.
Blood Elves donât have âalliance themesâ or âalliance identityâ, they are a group that brings their themes and identity to the faction they are in.
But as much as that is true, it is also so that there are High Elves that never left the alliance, so they donât have exclusivity to those themes, much like humans share a backstory with the Forsaken and the Nightborne with the Night Elves.
I really donât see the notion of âalliance flavored argumentsâ and Iâm not sure of what you mean by that.
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I mean the following as respectfully as possible:
I canât believe people here admonishing and hating on Void Elves for having weak lore, setup, and implementation, and deciding to play them en masse anyway, are simultaneously wanting High Elves for much else than shallow reasons.
Like, I canât think that High Elf lore and culture are really all that important to people who are willing to toss each of these factors aside when making Void Elves.
I guess the real answer would come from this scenario:
Blizzard implement light skin shades and blonde, normal hair shades for Void Elves. No lore, no background or quest, you just get extra options. Let us say simply, you can make yourself look like a High Elf at that point.
Do you continue this thread to ask for proper High Elves? Would it even be worth pursuing once given the look?
Iâm going to lean towards no, even if you make a disgruntled frown while doing so. I think at that point the vast majority of people wanting High Elves, even die-hards, would acquiesce.
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By that I mean when they argue that Blood Elves somehow care about the past or maintaining core ideals and beliefs. That isnât necessarily true or accurate to how they are written, and if that were the case theyâd be an even more ill fit for the Horde. The Horde is not about maintaining the past or sticking to tradition, but more about surviving in the present and doing whatever is absolutely necessary for survival, even if it means changing culture, the Blood Elves have story themes that demonstrate that too. By arguing things like âtheyâre the true legacy of the High Elvesâ or âthey are actually High Elves, even though they are Blood Elvesâ does a disservice to how theyâve changed as a people, it regresses them and further lends support to the idea that they never should have been put on the Horde because those themes donât fit the Horde.
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Maybe Blizzard does have a long term plan that they are silent on where we get High Elves at the end of the expansion because Sylvanas is killed and resurrected as a High Elf.
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I donât see anything wrong with that and as has been told a million times to you, itâs about wanting traditional allies who share common values. Void Elves fill a niche, but they donât fulfill that, so people will keep asking for races that fulfill that motif. Itâs the same reason Horde players, specifically Blood Elves, asked for Nightborne. Itâs the same reason Horde players wanted Zandalari and Magâhar Orcs. Those races are large requests because they share common values with the Horde, and the case is no different with the High Elves.
Alliance players, more than any, will always want whatâs traditional and what they know fits their faction. Void Elves could have been that, but Blizzard missed the mark completely by not making them High Elves or any of the classic established High Elf characters from BC and Wrath. There is a difficult time building any connection to the miniscule amount of Void Elf characters there are right now, but the Horde can enjoy all the plethora of characters built up from the addition of the Void Elf counterpart, which are the Nightborne, who have a solid footprint in the Horde due to their friendship with Blood Elves.
If Blizzard did anything to build friendship between Void Elves and other races it wouldnât be as bad, but I donât see them doing that any time soon.
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This is where I think youâre conflating âHigh Elf heritageâ with âAllianceâ. The two did not always run tandem, and in fact, Quelâthalas as a whole was a very sporadic ally throughout history.
Blood Elves also very much celebrate their High Elven heritage and traditions: the Blood elf name is literally in honor to them, the fallen High elves, not some wild reinvention.
The Blood Elf heritage questline doesnât go through their path joining the Horde or events following; It celebrates their last moments as High Elves and how they have struggled to maintain themselves in the wake of a near extinction event. (That said, they do explore more of their present day feelings within the Horde during the Nightborne unlock scenario, as theyâre obviously trying to sway Thalyssra).
Thereâs more unique and important High Elves in this questline as apparitions and ghosts than exist on the Alliance alive today.
The fact High Elves exist on the Alliance does not equate to the High elven heritage following them. They abandoned much of what their legacy was, and should probably get set up to take a new name accordingly.
This is my main beef with existing High Elves. They need a new identity going forward that has yet to manifest. Their tired and frankly arbitrary at this point conflict with Blood Elves seems to be only reactionary, and isnât giving High elves any opportunity to grow or define themselves.
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Not necessarily. An example off the top of my head would be celebrations. Christie Golden in Before the Storm indicates High Elves used to have these massive ostentatious celebrations, however after the Fall of QuelâThalas, itâs no longer the case. She describes Blood Elves liking the comfort stuff still but not to the extent as before, also because theyâre now a âbitterâ people.
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Because if they honored their heritage and didnât change to become something else, then they never would have opted to join the Horde, the Horde that consists of former enemies that sought to kill them all and threaten their way of life. Them joining the Horde and exiling anybody who disagreed with that is indeed a sign that they have changed as a people and are not beholden to the previous culture they held onto when they were still Alliance allies.
But based on that, that is why they fit the Horde. Clinging hard to any kind of High Elf legacy makes them fit the Horde less, because that is not what they or the Horde actually stand for. They now stand for values of survival and doing what is necessary to live another day.
Blizzard COULD have given them a new identity with the Void Elves, but they botched it completely. That said, whatever identity they give them it has to respect their WC2 implementation and still maintain the things that define them such as close friendship with the rest of the Alliance and values of blood and honor.
Blizzard could have done that with Void Elves, but their attempts just feel too much like damage control and leads to too many plot-holes. They can write Umbric as saying that he and his followers were actually always loyal to the Alliance and believe in its ideals, but it feels like a complete re-write of the prior motivation that Void Elves were supportive of Silvermoon to the point they were willing to do anything to protect it, even when it was still part of the Horde.
I used to just accept this when it was first datamined, I liked the thought that Umbric and the Void Elves were actually always loyal to the Alliance, but recently Iâve been critically questioning that because it really does contradict their previous characterization established in their recruitment scenario.
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