The Unofficial High Elf Discussion Megathread

Community General Discussion
16634

:no_mouth:

16635

You just contradicted yourself and have actually argued in favor of HEs :slight_smile:

You say LF Draenei are not biologically the same race as Draenei only because the former have been infused with the Light while the latter haven’t.

Well, guess what? Blood Elves have been infused with the Light too, and High/Silver Elves haven’t, so following your argument, they’re not biologically the same race anymore

Thank you!! :slight_smile:

16636

Just give the horde forest trolls. As a bonus, having the blood elves ally with the Amani out of desperation would be a good plot point that could spur the high elves into action.

3 Likes
16637

That’s
not how that works. The Sunwell doesn’t “Infuse” us. We aren’t “Light forged”. We haven’t had anything directly infused into us, to change us biologically.

16638

Whatever floats their boat!!

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16639

I never actually thought of it in these terms before. But you’re right. That’s a good observation.

Magic (particularly the type of magic) definitely seems to the the major catalyst for change in the WoW universe.

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16640

First of all


Show me a citation about, “Things not changing their DNA” or causing an evolution.

Where are you getting that from?

In fact
 show me anything that suggests at all that “DNA” exists in WoW. Quest Text, Books, I don’t care about the source.

Second


None of that has anything to do with replying to what I said.

I said, “Counter my argument.”

and you were like, “Here is some really low level WoW lore.”

That’s not a rebuttal.

You just rambled.

Counter my arguments.

Also, let me expand your tree a bit
 You’re missing some, “Evolutions”

Dark Trolls -

  • Kal’dorei
    • Nightborne
    • Highborne / Quel’dorei
    • Satyrs
    • Naga

Quel’dorei

    • Blood Elves
    • Quel’dorei

Blood Elves

    • FelBlood Elves
    • Void Elves
16641

Mmhmm. Only thing that evolves are Old Gods Spawn. Which isn’t surprising, because they’ve got eyes and tentacles everywhere.

Things like the Mantid.

Everything else is changed by magic. Even the High Mountain Tauren. Cenarius gave them those antlers.

Ogres were another race changed my mushroom spores. Which is still pretty magicky.

All the titanforged are changed by the curse of the flesh.

The only thing that may evolve naturally are trolls, which is unlikely, since Loa hold the same rank as Cenarius, they most likely are the ones who changed the trolls.

Felblood Elves are “Another Race.”
Void Elves are “Another Race”

and so Blood Elves are a step between “High Elves” and Felblood elves. They’re physiologically different as far as it matters in the WoW universe.

Just like the Kal’dorei and Shal’dorei are “Different” races. Nightborne evolved because of magic.

2 Likes
16642

It’s ironic because I don’t actually care


Humans and Kul’tirans are Allied Races. Pandaren are a race


so for all it matters in WoW High Elves and Blood Elves don’t need to be separate “Races” they work as an Allied Race as is.

So it’s not like I need them to be different to win arguments.

I just ironically discovered when debating here that they are different races.

16643

Yeah, I was going to say, ultimately it’s all kind of moot because of Kul Tirans being literally just humans that look different for flavour purposes, so if it’s good enough for Humans, it should be good enough for Elves too.

But it’s still interesting to dissect the laws of the WoW universe.

16644

If your eyes change colors that’s a biological change.

Also you’re wrong. The Developers have stated that players can choose to be, “Purified by the Light” like Liadrin was.

How do Elves change? They get juiced up on magic.

Exhibit A: - https://wow.gamepedia.com/Wretched

Look what happens if you don’t dump your Arcane energy.

Withered and Wretched are both Biological changes based on an abundance, or lack of magic.

You don’t understand how evolution works in WoW.

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16645

I didn’t realize that this discussion was “suddenly” about naga and satyrs. Changing the goal posts there a bit, don’t you think? Pretty sure we were only talking about Night elves and High elves.

But if you have to ask for “high level lore” to prove that “any evolution” took place- you are a troll and not further worth my time.

16646

Yeah cause they aren’t, barring some pseudo fantasy science where one can consider the fel altering genetic makeup or whatever
 An irradiated human is still human though. Still WoW has done weirder things.

The main problem I see is that people either unknowingly or trollingly latch on to the term ‘high elf’ as the racial definition for the particular “Thalassian” identity.

The issue here is that it is both a term for the general umbrella “Thalassian” race as well as one particular subset of them.

The reasons for this are evident. Just as Blood Elves renamed themselves in honor of their fallen kin, High Elves retained their name in honor of their own traditions (which the Blood Elves have shunned).

It would be so simple to rebrand the current Alliance-aligned High Elves but Blizzard refuses to, because they correctly believe that High Elves ARE representative of the traditional high elves. They are the blue to the Blood Elf’s red. They are the standard high elf which Blood Elves subvert.

3 Likes
16647

I love to watch you twist in the wind
 you know nobody observing this is going to be convinced by that past attempt to dodge out of this debate, right?

I didn’t change goal posts. We are talking about elven evolution.

The Naga and satyrs are part of Elven Evolution.

Your job in a debate is to defeat my arguments. Poorly stating really low level Lore and then your head canon without citation isn’t going to do it.

Defeat my arguments.

1 Like
16648

Evolution is a fancy term for mutation. Mutation is usually caused by some form of radiation. In Warcraft magic is the most common type of radiation.

Saying something isn’t evolution because it was caused by magic is inaccurate.

Yes, Blood Elves are a mutation (albeit a small one) on High Elves.

2 Likes
16649

tbf, DNA is literally why all humans, for example, dont look exactly the same and resemble their parents. indeed all humans would look exactly alike if DNA didnt pass on their parents genes. in fact breeding might not even be possible without DNA(it wouldnt):smile:

out for the weekend for real this time. have a good one everbody

:+1:

16650

I mean, I always just held the belief that Elf physiology was fairly unstable on a ‘genetic’ level in that they could turn from Night Elves into High Elves, Highborne, Nightborne, Withered, Wretched, Felborne, Felblood, Fal’dorei and Void Elves (As well as Naga, Satyrs and San’layn with a bit of outside influence) all based on magical exposure in different quantities and combinations. All within a lifespan, no less.

But it seems like that’s the case for most races, except that they don’t usually have the lifespans to make the full change in a single generation. Magic’s a powerful reactant when it comes to altering life in Warcraft, it seems.

(Hell, the fact that Blood Elf culture is turning towards the Light more and more (not to mention direct physiological changes with their new light-based customisations) kind of indicates that the rift between High and Blood Elves is widening, as well. So you could add Blood Elves to that list, too.)

4 Likes
16651

Did you just try to explain DNA to a medical professional?

No mention of it in WoW. Which literally has creationism as a basis. Because it’s a fictional setting.

Radiation in Gnomeregan either turns people into lepers, or sludges. You want to explain to me what’s happening to Gnome Telomeres there?

2 Likes
16652

They are not part of “this discussion”. For someone who loves to throw around insults, you do have a hard time with comprehension.

I’m not dodging the debate. I am dodging your constant contradiction and blatant toxic attitude. I have already proven that a number of times but you keep on being condescending (which seems to be an ongoing theme with Helf supporters) and for no reason whatsoever.

I did defeat your arguments, based on lore. You just choose to cherry pick what is acceptable to your head canon.

Lore states that after The highborne were exiled and cut off from the Well of Eternity, they “evolved”. Genetically. Their hair changed color, their skin, their eyes etc. That, by definition, is evolution. And hence they became “High elves” and founded the High elven city Quel’thalas. At no point in time, did this ever happen again. Other than the 3 I listed (again, going back to only talking of Night elves and High elves).

Nightborne “did not evolve” into a new race. The Nightborne are original remnants of the time period of Zin Azshari. Pre Sundering. Their long exposure changed their appearance but it was not, by definition, “an evolution”. They are genetically the same race as Night elves. We, High elves, are not.

“Sigh” Okay. Glad to know that you represent the Helf crowd. I don’t have anything to worry about. Bet your part of the same crowd that screams “Blizzard doesn’t know THEIR OWN LORE!”.

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16653

long winded argument trying to defame me
 one counter argument.

Provide a citation that high elves and night elves are genetically different


Also the common anti high elf strategy is to point out that the Nightborne “Evolved over 10,000 years.”

As stated by their wow race page.

Why don’t you stop it with the personal attacks and try to defeat my argument here.

You can keep slandering me, it’s not like it’s improving your argument. Also, I don’t care.

1 Like