The Unofficial High Elf Discussion Megathread

Even just the…lets say the first ‘hour’ or so of BFA content, the tone is completely different.

Firstly, I want to preface that I think the whole mission to Stormwind to free Talanji and Zul isn’t as great as some people make it out to be. But I’d still give it like an 7.5 out of 10since it hits a lot of good notes.

However, the cutscene fleeing the Alliance fleet is a pretty damn epic moment. So too is the arrival at Zandalari, and even just the first five minutes, that initial impression you get of Zul’Dazar is just…epic.

(That being said, Zul’Dazar really is a horrific place to navigate, but even that could have been minimised by better NPC placement rather than overhauling the area or anything)

On the other hand, your first five minutes in Kul Tiras just…aren’t. Boralus is a muddy slum, everyone is a sourpuss, you’re scorned and hated (sure, valid reasons, but still) and then you get thrown in jail.

Now, I get that they were trying to sell Kul Tiras as a proud nation fallen on hard times. But aside from the whole ‘our fleet is missing’ plot point which literally takes the entire levelling campaign to come to fruition, there’s not much evidence of it. The overall Kul Tiran aesthetic just doesn’t really capture the imagination the way it should have.

Boralus should have had a Minas Tirith moment. By that I mean you see this gleaming, wonderous city that from a distance captures the imagination, steals your breath away, and makes you stare in wonder, but as you get closer, you see the boarded up windows, the dead gardens, the chips in the stonework, and the overall decay.

And I think that initial experience, that first impression really makes a world of difference. Travelling through Zuldazar, you’re just constantly struck by the harshness of the landscape, or the lushness of the rainforest, or the ruins drowning in the swamps. The land is alive, and vivid, and the first time you see those dinosaurs, you really have a moment of just…PHWOAR that’s awesome.

Where’s that in Kul Tiras? I think the coolest thing I saw was a giant bee. The Drust are boring, the witches are meh, half the island is haunted while the other half is taken over by boring Void-based Lovecraftian ripoffs.

I just feel like Kul Tiras lacks that…fantastic nature that Zuldazar has and it could have. It should have.

Where is the evidence of Kul Tiras being thrust out into the middle of the ocean during the Cataclysm? There should have been all sorts of stories about the elements being in chaos, or half of the island being destroyed. There should have been relics of the Second War strewn across the islands. Where’s the wreckage of old Horde fleets and old Alliance strongholds? I want to walk through silver-stoned Alliance forts and barracks, now abandoned and rotting. I want to face a pirate king in his lair - a shipwrecked Ogre Juggernaut. I want to learn the fate of a long lost Elven navy, or learn about the fate of the High Elves that apparently once lived on Kul Tiras (it was a thing in the old lore IIRC).

Kul Tiras had a ton of history to borrow from - particularly in an expansion like BfA where they intentionally wanted to go back to the classic Orcs vs Humans trope, but it’s just not there. It doesn’t charm me, it doesn’t capture my imagination, it just bored me, and drones on about how Lady Ashvane is such an obvious bad guy that noone else seems to have picked up on yet somehow.

Kul Tiras feels like it was designed by people who have no passion for the Alliance and the history of Warcraft. Zuldazar feels every bit like it was made by people who were excited, interested and passionate about what they were building.

And yes, all of this is subjective, personal opinion, and people are free to disagree with me. But as someone who is a passionate Alliance player, I can’t help but look at the Alliance and Horde content and see something of a mismatch…maybe not necessarily in professional and technical quality, but in passion.

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This is a joke, right? That or a greatest hits track of this thread to scum for hearts?

High Elves haven’t been able to do anything, not one tiny scrap of a thing, without it being a pure counter or reaction to Blood Elves.

In Wrath they are just there to oppose Blood Elves in the Kirin Tor, and be the Blue to our Red them at the Argent Tourney.

In MoP they play support to Jaina in purging Dalaran of Blood Elves and in opposing Lor’themar on Thunder Isle.

In Legion they play support to Tyrande in being the Alliance part of the Suramar liberation, again, opposite Blood Elves (while Blood Elves and Night Elves storm the Nighthold, High Elves do ??? and stay outside, btw).

Even Alleria shows up in Silvermoon as merely a part of the Horde story of Blood Elves recruiting the Nightborne. Alliance players don’t even see this content and she’s their most well known High Elf!

And finally, High Elves show up again, in Horde only content, as past experiences and reliving the fall of Quel’thalas, in the Blood Elf Heritage Armor questline. There’s more notable and named High Elves in this one questline than exist anywhere else in World of Warcraft.

High Elves haven’t done a damn thing on their own, much less so anything strictly for themselves.

You’re with a straight face, seriously going off about some grand fiction, some intangible fluff or fanfiction of a story they “have yet to tell?”.

Newsflash: The High Elf story IS the Blood Elf story. Anyone playing a Blood Elf is playing that story. Remaining High Elves are the absence of story.

They play, at best, second fiddle, supporting actor roles to not only the mainstay of their people, but even to their own faction you’re so quick to remind everyone they’re a part of.

You are free to like them. To advocate for them.

But please, forgive me, if I am not puffing my chest out and propping them up to be something they have never been and very much aren’t now purely because of blind High Elf fandom, because that’s exactly what you’d have to be to elevate them to this “pillar of the Alliance” this thread seems to insinuate they are.

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It’s World of Warcraft isn’t it?

Countering other factions is how Warcraft works…

Also -

Northrend - Alliance Vanguard. Vs. The Lich King.
Allerian Hold - Quel Danil questlines aren’t countering Blood Elves either.

As always, holding this race to a different standard than the others.

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Vereesa is actually shown in the NightHold Cinematic.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/560397972496711715/560398027496357898/20190327_204110.jpg

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I’m gonna tell you with a straight face… THE HIGH ELVES HAVE STORY TO TELL THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BLOOD ELVES.

Now you’re gonna tell ME “with a straight face” that all this time since the split, the High Elves in the Alliance haven’t been dealing with their own issues and struggles? You gonna tell me that the devs couldn’t tell that story? Tell us what they’ve been doing since the split? How they’ve been adapting to living in human civilizations? What their goals are NOW?

No Lydon, you pack those irrelevant “feelings” of yours up and move on. You are wrong plain and simple. The High Elves have an entire story that we haven’t been told yet that has nothing to do with your precious Blood Elf history. The past is the past, and the High Elves have a story since the split that those of us who want playable High Elves want to see told.

I’m not elevating the High Elves at all. I am merely stating that:

  • High Elves are part of the Alliance, have been part of the Alliance in WoW since before TBC and Blood Elves ever joined the Horde, and continue to play a role in Alliance content to this day.

  • There’s a whole story we haven’t been told about the High Elves since their split with their brethren in Silvermoon. We want to see that story and get to play as those High Elves.

  • You don’t want that because it makes you “feel bad” for some strange reason. And you have this delusion that somehow making playable Alliance High Elves will somehow take some vague nebulous “something” away from Blood Elves.

Bottom line is, you don’t have an actual objective argument against playable Alliance High Elves so you have no choice but to fallback on “feelings” and vague notions of loss without any concrete evidence that such loss would occur.

You lost nothing when we got Void Elves and those were actual Blood Elves to begin with! High Elves won’t damage your precious Sin’dorei.

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Alliance Vanguard, or any greater Alliance force that may or may not contain High Elves, is not High Elven storytelling. It’s merely another showcase of them in a support role.

Thanks for pointing that out. This is exactly my point.

While we’re at it, 7th legion is also a catch-all Alliance force that doesn’t advance or pronounce a single race’s story. It’s as generic as forces get

The Silver Covenant was created on purpose to oppose Blood Elves, of course they’re going to oppose you as much as they can! You should be happy that the Blood Elves have a legitimate rival on the Alliance. It helps them “fit” better in the Horde when High Elves are the ones pushing them away.

Newsflash: There are other independent High Elf groups in Dalaran and Hinterlands who aren’t part of the Silver Covenant either.

Why does any of this matter anyway? Kul’tiran humans weren’t even special until Blizzard created lore to support it. The High Elf vs Blood Elf is already amazing, it would be interesting to have it explored even further. Stop trying to pretend that High Elves are just there for no reason Ion, they’re interesting to the story and we (alliance) love them.

Vereesa’s look is always on point. It’s always a joy to see her in anything :wink:

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You’re screaming into the Void about all the storytelling they could backtrack and tell, and I’m pointing out the reality that they never bothered.

You’re in the wrong timeline, friend. There is no incentive to retread this ground so a smidgeon of players can be a not-Blood Elf in the Alliance.

Nope. I am exactly where I need to be.

You’re the one worrying about the past. I’m looking to the future.

Get it into your head. The High Elves have a story we haven’t been told yet. You’re right in that the devs haven’t bothered to do so yet. We want that to change. And you’re fighting us tooth and nail because you “feel” that your Blood Elves will lose something if the devs decide to tell that story, even though they will objectively lose nothing.

They lost nothing when we got actual Blood Elves defecting to the Alliance as Void Elves, they won’t lose anything if we get playable High Elves.

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List of things Blizzard has done instead of adding and writing arbitrary High Elf story:

  • Force-fit Alleria the High Elven ranger into a Void-centric storyline completely out of her previously known character.

  • Invented an entirely new race of Elf with zero previous precedent as playable for the Alliance.

  • Added a retelling of the most important story regarding High Elves in a questline for Blood Elven players.

Look man, I’m just calling it like it’s being played. Why you guys are waiting for the other shoe to drop so badly is really beyond me.

With that, I’m sleeping. Enjoy your morning.

So… two major problems here.

First - You’ve got a very Horde Centric view here. Keep in mind if you’re playing on Alliance Side the Blood Elves only exist to counter the High Elves.

So I guess we should revoke their playable status, right?

Second - Let’s say you were correct, which you aren’t because your viewpoint is narrow…

So what?

It’s not like that’s any reason to bar playable High Elves.

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We still have Vereesa and Auric. The request existed before Alleria even came back.

They invented a new race out of Blood Elves. Not the Elves we want. If they really didn’t want us to have High Elves, they shoulda used the Elves we were used to. But they didn’t.

The Elves we want are still there…

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Yeah.

You know what Alliance Race could have countered Blood Elves pretty well?

Night Elves.

High Elves didn’t need to be in Suramar. They could have just used Night Elves.

It would ramp up tensions too, would build a real Night Elf vs. Blood Elf narrative.

They didn’t though.

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And the idea that Blood Elves are so special they deserve an unplayable Alliance Counterpart to tell their narrative is absurd.

If there is going to be an unplayable race that exists to bolster a specific factions narrative then it needs to be neutral or it’s a developer bias towards the Horde.

The Alliance doesn’t have any races that are bolstering their narrative with an unplayable Horde race at their expense…

And if that did happen… if they were like, “Oh the Naga are in the Horde now to fight against the Night Elves. But they’re going to be unplayable.” that would be entirely unreasonable of the development team.

If it’s an Alliance group or a Horde group, they should be playable.

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What would you guys think about a Dark Ranger / Ranger hero class?

Horde side would be Undead Blood Elves and Night Elves
Alliance side would be Night Elves and High Elves.

Like demon hunters.

Would be a good opportunity to include Troll Shadow Hunters as well. So some counterpart Alliance side.

Rengari?

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And they are doing a pretty good job of it too considering they aren’t even the entirety of the High Elves.

It’s almost like the High Elves have been Alliance members since Warcraft 2 and they are still shown despite the Blood Elves being made Horde because they are part of the Alliance Theme.

But really, the idea that an NPC race has to meet the exact same qualifications as a player race before becoming playable is ridiculous and isn’t a goalpost that has to be reached.

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actually this is one of the prime things that would make them a separate thing considering there is justification for it having been happening for roughly 3 thousand years. You can call thel half elves but we refer to them as high elves because at the end of the day they associate themselves with high elves and that is the reality of what the modern high elf is.

They have mixed human heritage. Some remain pure elf while a lot realistically would have some human ancestry.

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Yeah, moving the goalposts has always been his thing. But we have been here before where he has tried to impose a standard only capable of being reached by playable characters and trying to spin that as being a reason they shouldn’t be playable.

At this point I imagine him playing Warcraft 2 Horde side and thinking, “These Alliance guys are only here to support my narrative.”

This mornings counter argument against High Elves was, “I don’t understand how narration works.”

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I see Vareesa Windrunner is getting her own card in the new Hearthstone expansion. She’s a new Hunter Legendary.

Of course the trolls have to try and constantly change the narrative. The basis of their fear of there being playable High Elves is that there will be another fair skinned race of elves to play in the game … and that somehow blurs the faction identity (which it doesn’t) … and somehow affects THEIR time in the game (which it doesn’t).

All the points about lore and population and what have you have been countered and even disproven (as we all know that ONE troll who THINKS they know lore but makes a fool of themselves everytime they post). It all boils down to “MUH MODELS” which is so insanely childish and entitled that it’s really hard to take them seriously at this point (and let me be clear: I’ve never taken them seriously).

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And we could turn around and claim that none of what you listed counts as Blood Elf development because they are present opposite of High Elves, but the rest of us know how asinine that sounds, which is true for the reverse as well.

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