Indeed, also maybe some slightly different proportions to represent different generalized lifestyles (i.e. All the remaining Alliance High Elven organization are paramilitary in origin, or maybe High Elves got into working out to help with the pangs of addiction)
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The only real change in proportion I might be comfortable with is if they were scaled up to Human height (which would affect their width as well) to represent any intermingling with humans in their ancestry. I am very reluctant to make them âbulkierâ or anything like that. WoWâs males already have a problem with being overly muscled/bulky.
The Thalassian model is the only one with close to realistic human proportions (assuming you consider fitness models ârealisticâ).
I just donât want the model to mutated into something unrecognizable or aesthetically unappealing.
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I agree.
Iâd focus on changing animations rather than body proportions.
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Changing the model also might require to adapt a lot of animations in the process, while changing the idle stance is 3 animations at max (stand and some idle animations, Blood/Void Elves have 2)
You can also create make the models look more muscled and defined by just changing the skin textures.
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Granted, but thatâs an issue between what one personally wants v/s how that helps differentiate the HEâs silhouette from BEâs, i.e. personal bias, which Iâm rn being held to, because I like the beefy styles of WoW.
Maybe High Elves could be leaner because they did more yoga and meditation, and not exercises that would lead to bulk. I wouldnât personally like that, but it would be a way to differentiate them from Blood Elves even further.
Thatâs the thing, IMO if High Elves arenât considered different enough, I am open to things and ideas that make them so, which include both things Iâd like (Shaman or Druids as classes) things I wouldnât care (Not giving them Paladins) or things Iâd personally dislike (making them leaner than regular Blood Elves)
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They still need to be recognizable as High Elves though.
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I donât think is possible to make them even leaner haha
Iâm more inclined to more muscular definition through textures and slight model changes.
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Goes without saying. On the other hand, is very obvious that the ârecognizable as High Elfâ threshold will never be a consensus.
What if the High Elf model ended up very similar to the vanilla model? How many people would be okay with that?
If we fullfill the different enough maxim, how much can we move away from the starting BE model? And the question most importantly for me, is who would be okay with it and who wouldnât, and why.
If people didnât like the resulting model because itâs too different from the BE one, would that be a valid concern? Cause lbr, that opinion would lend credence to the notion that pro-helfers just want the BE model on the alliance.
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Cause lbr, that opinion would lend credence to the notion that pro-helfers just want the BE model on the alliance.
To which I say⌠so what? There are as many reasons people want High Elves as there are people asking for them. Besides, we already have the model on Alliance already. Both as Alliance High Elf NPCâs and playable Void Elves.
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Mesh changes are âfairlyâ easy because the models all have universal animation bones. So making the limbs slimmer or bulkier wonât make too much of a difference. When you start playing around with posture, or limb length, or basically the distances between the various animation bones, then yeah, things start to get a bit more complex.
But all in all making High Elves thinner or beefier wouldnât be too hard, theoretically.
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Have you seen the Nightborne? They can be leaner. Would I want to? Nop. Daddy likes beef.
Personally agreed, but if the issue is about making them different enough, we have to accept that the way they could do it might not be the way weâd like.
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That deflects the point. If what we care about really is just the model, is the whole High Elf request as valid as weâd like? If all the lore is just a justification for the model, then I donât think it would be.
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Quoting this for emphasis. At the end of the day, all we can do is discuss and support ideas.
Ultimately, we have no control over whether High Elves wind up looking like blue-eyed Blood Elves, or if they look like pointy-eared lumberjacks with barrel chests and forearms the size of a table legs. All we can do is say âhey, thereâs a lot of people who like High Elves, how about making them an Allied Race - oh, and by the way, here are some ideas we came up with for you to consider.â
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What makes a request âvalidâ and why would wanting the model, when it already exists on Alliance NPCâs âinvalidateâ the request?
Iâm not saying High Elves shouldnât be differentiated. Only that drastic mutilation of the model is not necessary or desired.
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Not invalidate, but definitely frames it as more superficial if itâs just about the model. And from that, everyone gets to decide how valid a request is.
I know itâs a touchey subject, but there is a difference. We can argument how the lore supports High Elves all day long, but if the priority is the model, then those arguments are justification, not the reason we believe High Elves should be playable.
And the thesis on this branch of the discussion is regarding the hypothetical necessity of making the model different enough to be playable, and such being the reason High Elves arenât playable so far. I.E. The supposition is that enough differentiation IS necessary, so we are arguing about what that means.
And it is uncomfortable to talk about it, but if it comes to High Elf lore becoming playable, how relevant is the model to that? And that is the uncomfortable question: Are people willing to let go of the BE model for High Elves to be playable if it came to that?
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I cant believe I am saying this⌠but i agree with Ion.
Blood elfs ARE High Elfâs. look, Garithos and the alliance treated them like %^$# in WC3 and after so they joined the Horde. If you played the blood elf starting area AT ALL, you would know that they tried to join the alliance. Go do the quests in eversong. There are dwarf ambassadors they were petitioning to join the alliance but the night elfs would not allow it cuz magic bad. The Sinâdorei were desperate for aid, when you make a blood elf the point of the story you enter is: the sunwell was just destoryed. Kaelâthas just took all the best soliders and most of the population to be slaves in Outland. The Elfs were on the verge of extinction and they begged the alliance for help and they spat in thier face.
The forsaken mostly because slyvannas was an elf, aided them.
Iâm sorry that you do not like the way their story has progressed since Reign of Chaos but thats the way it goes man ![:slight_smile:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
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Yeah. Like, Kul Tirans went through a whole retcon to make them physically different, to warrant their introduction as an AR.
Whether it worked or not is not the issue here, but it reveals how the Blizzard design philosophy demands for enough differentiation, and barring a change of that sensibility, Playable High Elves most likely would look different enough, at least in the way NB are different from Night Elves.
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Always, but personally i think the best way a High Elf can be differentiated from a Blood Elf is very straight forward: The nameplate color, they are Alliance so it would be automatically different.
Well, we already bring up a lot of ideas such as unique different hair styles (with some adapted from other races like the Void Elves), unique hair colors, different faces, non-glowing eyes, different facial hair and jewelry, different skin tones and undertones, tattoos, arcane markings, skin textures and different idles. If you look at all of this, itâs more than the things that visually set differentiate a Void Elf from a Blood Elf.
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If the resultant model looked like your mockups? Iâd be fine with it. Itâs less about the Thalssian model specifically and more about Blizzardâs miserable taste in aesthetics, particularly when it comes to males in WoW. Iâm terrifed to give them carte blanche to go ham on making something new -_-
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Let me stop you right there: None of that applies to the High Elves we are talking about. That is Blood Elven lore, we are talking about the HEâs that never left the alliance, that never joined Kaelâthas, that remained on human settlements.
All you said simply doesnât apply to the High Elves we want.
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