The Unofficial High Elf Discussion Megathread

Community General Discussion
1422
10/11/2018 11:44 AMPosted by Donnalupo
10/11/2018 11:34 AMPosted by Talendrion
To pretend High Elves don't exist as their own faction on the alliance is simply ignorant of facts.


The high elf people now call themselves blood elves. That is not my opinion, that is the official lore. As such, the high elf faction is spoken for. Aberrant groups don't change that. The cult of the damned existing does not change the core concepts of the Human faction. The silver covenant existing does not change the high elf faction as a whole. So what you want is a new faction of pretty elves with ideals, motivations, and characterizations of their own. If you want that, sure to each their own. But appeals to the high elves historical place in the world remain nonsensical.


How can you speak of "the high elf faction" as a whole, when The Silver Covenant already exists as its own faction. So do the Scryers, the Highvale, or any other elven faction. You are making no sense.

Make the race argument if you must, but this argument about the "High elf faction" existing as a whole while in the lore itself we se several splinter groups, is nonsense.

The isn't a "human faction" either; every playable race is specifically linked to an origin. Playable Humans are Stormwind Humans, there are also NEUTRAL humans in the Kirin Tor, and as part of several other neutral organizations.

Your argument is nonsense, there can't be such a thing as "the X faction" to group every member of a race because literally in game we see this not being such.
1423
10/11/2018 11:36 AMPosted by Talendrion
10/11/2018 10:48 AMPosted by Illiaster
...
I think we are revolving back to the whole "High elves are just being used at set pieces for Alliance" without any actual development to them or depth to them.


Which will always be debatable and up for argumentation. Yet the fact is clear, even if they are just a prop, the Silver Covenant lorewise exists as its own faction, with its own ideals and goals. It's irrelevant if they have been used as only a prop for other alliance stories, they still *exist.*

No it lessens the influence and impact of the faction or the race.

Let's look at BFA: You have two appearances of high elves in Alliance settings. The shieldmages and the portal mage rp Arathi.

The question is here: Could they be any other Alliance race and still make sense?

Absolutely. Mages are a wide spread class. They represent the 7th Legion, not a High elf faction but a conglomerate of races.

Let's look at Legion:

How relevant are the Silver Covenant to the plot of when they appear?

1) The Unseen Path where the SC pledge to aid.

But, they did what the other elven rangers did. Then they werent seen against until you have to talk with Vareesa in one mission.

2) The Nightfallen Rebellion

The queldorei were present in the staging area and the cutscene....but nothing else. They arent quested with. No world quests with Vareesa. They just are there and nothing else.
1424
10/11/2018 11:45 AMPosted by Wyspers
Yeah except you can go to Northrend and see Quel'dorei soldiers standing next to Sin'dorei soldiers.


What is your point?

10/11/2018 11:45 AMPosted by Wyspers
What's nonsensical is the idea that your personal headcannon should apply to everyone else's


I'm simply going by what Blizzard has said, which is that the High Elves now call themselves Blood Elves. I suspect you may not know what the term "headcannon" means, and not just because your usage would seem to imply the ability to fire projectiles from the noggin.
1425
10/11/2018 12:08 PMPosted by Illiaster
No world quests with Vareesa. They just are there and nothing else.


If World Quests are important, keep in mind Vereesa had some on Argus.
1426


What is your point?


The point was obvious.

10/11/2018 12:12 PMPosted by Donnalupo


I'm simply going by what Blizzard has said, which is that the High Elves now call themselves Blood Elves. I suspect you may not know what the term "headcannon" means, and not just because your usage would seem to imply the ability to fire projectiles from the noggin.


You're making up your own lore.
1427
10/11/2018 12:08 PMPosted by Illiaster
10/11/2018 11:36 AMPosted by Talendrion
...

Which will always be debatable and up for argumentation. Yet the fact is clear, even if they are just a prop, the Silver Covenant lorewise exists as its own faction, with its own ideals and goals. It's irrelevant if they have been used as only a prop for other alliance stories, they still *exist.*

No it lessens the influence and impact of the faction or the race.

Let's look at BFA: You have two appearances of high elves in Alliance settings. The shieldmages and the portal mage rp Arathi.

The question is here: Could they be any other Alliance race and still make sense?

Absolutely. Mages are a wide spread class. They represent the 7th Legion, not a High elf faction but a conglomerate of races.

Let's look at Legion:

How relevant are the Silver Covenant to the plot of when they appear?

1) The Unseen Path where the SC pledge to aid.

But, they did what the other elven rangers did. Then they werent seen against until you have to talk with Vareesa in one mission.

2) The Nightfallen Rebellion

The queldorei were present in the staging area and the cutscene....but nothing else. They arent quested with. No world quests with Vareesa. They just are there and nothing else.


Again, their relevance to the questing experience, nor the specific narrative, is irrelevant to the fact they still exist as a faction of their own. You could have changed ANY INSTANCE of the Silver Covenant with another races, yet the POINT is that they were used instead, that they are the ones that keep showing up.

It's disingenuous to have them pass a litmus test of relevance necessary to be an Allied Race, when other AR races do not. The point is not that the SC is a necessity of the narrative, but that they keep showing, as their own specific faction, on it.

The fact that they keep showing up is what makes them thematically relevant, continuously so. Do you know what would stop making the SC or High Elves relevant? If they stopped showing up.
1 Like
1428
the High Elves now call themselves Blood Elves.


The ones who went to the Horde do, yes. But not the ones who are still affiliated with the Alliance.
1429
10/11/2018 12:18 PMPosted by Talendrion
It's disingenuous to have them pass a litmus test of relevance necessary to be an Allied Race, when other AR races do not. The point is not that the SC is a necessity of the narrative, but that they keep showing, as their own specific faction, on it.


They also forgot to mention upon going to Exodar to go to Argus, Veressa is the quest giver who accompanies us on Alliance side. I know it's so she could have a family meet up with her sister but they still picked her instead of a Draenei like Ishanah who is the Innkeeper on Vindicaar to take the alliance forces.
1430
10/11/2018 12:16 PMPosted by Wyspers
The point was obvious.


Please elucidate, because I suspect this reply is you hoping that nobody notices that you didn't have a point.

10/11/2018 12:16 PMPosted by Wyspers
You're making up your own lore.


Specifically what am I making up?

10/11/2018 12:23 PMPosted by Cassima
The ones who went to the Horde do, yes.


The source material says "the" high elves, not "these" or "some".
1431
10/11/2018 12:16 PMPosted by Wyspers
The point was obvious.


Please elucidate


I'd be repeating what was already written.
1432
10/11/2018 12:18 PMPosted by Talendrion
It's disingenuous to have them pass a litmus test of relevance necessary to be an Allied Race, when other AR races do not.


It could also be argued that it is disingenuous to attempt to apply the same arbitrary standards to every potential race. The holistic health of the game should be considered, and in doing so it would seem likely that rigid standards would be untenable.
1433
Sure, holistically adding a playable option to a much loved and pre-existing lore set would be elfing awesome.
1434
10/11/2018 11:44 AMPosted by Donnalupo
10/11/2018 11:34 AMPosted by Talendrion
To pretend High Elves don't exist as their own faction on the alliance is simply ignorant of facts.


The high elf people now call themselves blood elves. That is not my opinion, that is the official lore. As such, the high elf faction is spoken for. Aberrant groups don't change that. The cult of the damned existing does not change the core concepts of the Human faction. The silver covenant existing does not change the high elf faction as a whole. So what you want is a new faction of pretty elves with ideals, motivations, and characterizations of their own. If you want that, sure to each their own. But appeals to the high elves historical place in the world remain nonsensical.


https://wow.gamepedia.com/Taela_Everstride

I'm a HIGH elf, not a blood elf. Don't worry, I'm not going to suck all of the magic out of you.


Official lore btw. Not my opinion btw.
1435
10/11/2018 12:35 PMPosted by Donnalupo
10/11/2018 12:18 PMPosted by Talendrion
It's disingenuous to have them pass a litmus test of relevance necessary to be an Allied Race, when other AR races do not.


It could also be argued that it is disingenuous to attempt to apply the same arbitrary standards to every potential race. The holistic health of the game should be considered, and in doing so it would seem likely that rigid standards would be untenable.

Holistic health of the game? You act as if the addition of high elves will just break the game? I think it’s all gotten too complicated, and High elves are simple, they arnt fel infused, holy infused, void infused, or mech infused. It would bring in a simple AR just like the High mountain Tauren were a simple AR.

It won’t create an imbalance of factions in fact it will not effect another player personally if you do not play them, you will only see them running around Azeroth.

Please be specific what will it hurt?
1436
10/11/2018 12:35 PMPosted by Donnalupo
10/11/2018 12:18 PMPosted by Talendrion
It's disingenuous to have them pass a litmus test of relevance necessary to be an Allied Race, when other AR races do not.


It could also be argued that it is disingenuous to attempt to apply the same arbitrary standards to every potential race. The holistic health of the game should be considered, and in doing so it would seem likely that rigid standards would be untenable.


Yet to believe that High Elves cannot possibly made different enough aesthetically and thematically to not infringe on BE identity and "the holistic health of the game" is as big as arbitrary standards get.

And let's not start with the "holistic health of the game" cause now there you have a load of subjectivity, specially if you think any manner of HE would indoubtingly affect it negatively.
1437
Just putting this out there. IF blizzard were to force some kinda elf thing on us and we got to choose the poison. I'd rather void elves get a voidy fair skin version. Not entirely without void marks but fair enough that it satisfies the people complaining. They are still named void Elf and they retain all void elf things like hair/eyes except they have fairer skin+a purple/black streak across arms/chest/face or legs.
1438
10/11/2018 07:53 AMPosted by Eleroleron
Highelves cant be differentiated to a large enough extent from Bloodelves without defeating the purpose of what they currently are. As proof, look at Void Elves. The Bloodelf model that was taken and twisted into a completely new theme based on a darker concept, simply to give the model to the Alliance as well as a High-elf based concept. That is the level of change that makes them viable, a complete remaking of everything they were before, which does not diminish or take from the Bloodelf concept.


Did it sit well with the Pro-Helf fans? No. It was rejected, yet it was also the only viable option they came up with.

Let's not kid ourselves, Highelves -had- to be one of the first Allied Race concepts Blizzard discussed. Do you think they dont know about the requests? Of course they do. They always have.

Taking that into consideration, you can almost picture the decision-making process and how it all came to be rejected and turned towards Void elves. "We cant just give them Highelves because it is just Bloodelves. The idea is almost identical. It takes away from the theme. What about a variant?". How many ideas were thrown around before they settled on the idea of Voidelf being unique enough?

Will Blizzard end up regretting this decision and introducing yet another race using the Bloodelf model? Maybe....but I highly doubt it. Until then, the Alliance Highelves will continue to be used as they were intended to: To push forward a story and conflict of the Highelven remnant as a whole.

That is all I have to say on the matter. Enjoy the wishful thinking and brainstorming.


Why don't the nightborn need to be differentiated why do the horde just straight up get night elves? Not to mention talking about facti9n blurring how about raising freaking undead night elves.
1439
10/11/2018 12:15 PMPosted by Alurna
10/11/2018 12:08 PMPosted by Illiaster
No world quests with Vareesa. They just are there and nothing else.


If World Quests are important, keep in mind Vereesa had some on Argus.

Ok good. This is also 7.3, not 7.1. Vereesa does have WQs, but its less her being prominent and more her being aboard the VIndicaar due to Alleria coming back.

If you think this is a stretch, I want to point out the examples of Liadrin and Aethas being on the Vindicaar other than being there.

10/11/2018 12:18 PMPosted by Talendrion
Again, their relevance to the questing experience, nor the specific narrative, is irrelevant to the fact they still exist as a faction of their own.

This is just questing experience. This is gameplay and lore experience. IN LORE, THEY DO NOTHING in Suramar.

You could have changed ANY INSTANCE of the Silver Covenant with another races, yet the POINT is that they were used instead, that they are the ones that keep showing up.

Not really. You cannot exactly say that about the instances where the SC have appeared.

WotLK? No, they were the Alliance Dalaran faction.

Cataclysm? No, because they were involved with Zul'Aman and Silvermoon is still their home.

MoP? Same as WotLK

Legion? Unseen Path was going the ways of the four elven archer groups, and no other group would make sense to add for the Insurrection (though, they could have not been involved either).

It's disingenuous to have them pass a litmus test of relevance necessary to be an Allied Race, when other AR races do not.

I do believe there should be. Its why I really doubt we are gonna get Jinyu or Hozen ever as a AR; because they arent relevant to BFA in its current iteration and they have had zero development outside of MoP.

Its why the Taunka will probably never be a AR, because they havent existed outside of WotLK.

The point is not that the SC is a necessity of the narrative, but that they keep showing, as their own specific faction, on it.

But you need a narrative for an AR, or else why the !@#$ is there a story quest line to unlock them?

Look at all the Allied races, they all have some current narrative or direction for them. Why do you think the void elves have taken such a prominent role in the War Campaign for Alliance for a good period of time? Because they HAD NOTHING besides "prove ourselves to Alliance."

The fact that they keep showing up is what makes them thematically relevant, continuously so. Do you know what would stop making the SC or High Elves relevant? If they stopped showing up.

So are the pandaren more relevant than the high elves?
1440
10/11/2018 12:49 PMPosted by Tunkaningan
Just putting this out there. IF blizzard were to force some kinda elf thing on us and we got to choose the poison. I'd rather void elves get a voidy fair skin version. Not entirely without void marks but fair enough that it satisfies the people complaining. They are still named void Elf and they retain all void elf things like hair/eyes except they have fairer skin+a purple/black streak across arms/chest/face or legs.

It’s not satisfactory though, because they won’t quit using high elves/ silver covenant as a cog in the Alliance story.
1441
10/11/2018 12:49 PMPosted by Tunkaningan
Just putting this out there. IF blizzard were to force some kinda elf thing on us and we got to choose the poison. I'd rather void elves get a voidy fair skin version. Not entirely without void marks but fair enough that it satisfies the people complaining. They are still named void Elf and they retain all void elf things like hair/eyes except they have fairer skin+a purple/black streak across arms/chest/face or legs.


As long as the lore behind it is that Silver Covenant High Elves join the VE ranks, I'm all up for it.

I remember some old VE edits of more human like colors fading into void ones; like the skin tone ended with purple hands and feet, and we saw more purple "eye bags" same for hair color, going from more natural colors fading into void tones.