Lol, buddy it’s a literal strawman. I wasn’t talking about Metzen or even Blizzard devs in general.
Ion made a statement. You’re claiming his statement was invalid or somehow wrong on the basis that Metzen, and implicitly any Blizz dev, has the potential to be wrong, something I didn’t even posit.
I thought you in particular can appreciate a perfect example of a fallacy, even if you’re the one making it.
A strawman argument is if I take your argument and build it into something you didn’t say.
I never re-arranged your argument.
I just pointed out that developers can be wrong about the lore.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Straw_man
You are literally, verbatim, attacking the strawman, in your case, Metzen, to make a point against developer credibility, and thusly against Ion. I can’t give better examples of a strawman than what you posted.
It’s really funny you’re trying to argue your way out instead of just owning the words.
Wait, what?! Did I miss something here?
.…
That’s not what a Strawman is Lydon.
This is a Strawman argument:
You put forth an argument.
I take your argument and change it into another argument.
Then I defeat that argument.
Then I claim I defeated your original argument.
Your argument:
Ion told Jesse that there were no hubs that High Elves could come from.
My counter argument:
Chris Metzen (The Lore Dude) thought that Falstad was dead.
My assumption was that you would infer that I’m pointing out that Ion is incorrect about the lore…
and then providing evidence of a person with even more credibility with the lore being incorrect about something.
Thus pointing out that Ion’s opinion is incredibly fallible.
That isn’t a straw man. For this to be a straw man I’d have to change your original argument into something that it wasn’t.
I didn’t do that.
I just figured you’d follow along with the reasoning.
I brought up that Ion made a statement about High Elves not having a hub player adventurers could come from in a livestream with Jesse Cox at Blizzcon 2017.
Nyshant decides to strawman me by attacking an incorrect comment by Metzen back in 2010 about Falstad as a counterpoint that somehow makes Ion wrong.
Literal strawman.
That was an example of how developers make mistakes from time to time! Not the solution to the argument!
It’s literally changing the argument about the original point:
“High elves don’t have a hub players could come from”, where I cite a developer saying as such.
To an argument about developer credibility: “Metzen was wrong before, and thus what Ion says is wrong”.
Like I could literally use this as a strawman against anything any developer says.
The original argument in this line of debate was about High Elf players having a place to come from.
It’s comical because the example is so perfect.
Except that we were using it as an EXAMPLE and NOT a strawman.
You are intentionally using it as a strawman.
You’re making us look in the wrong here, when we weren’t.
I’m not quite sure if Ion could even use that excuse anymore. I mean technically speaking aren’t the Ren’dorei nothing more than a Hub of Blood Elves that were banned for believing the Void could be used to protect Quel’thalas. If a Hub of Blood Elves can become an Allied race… I don’t see the problem with a Hub of High Elves Becoming one. At least those are my thoughts.
For reference, this is what counter-argument to the point looks like.
I think the underlying assumption that Ion (a guy who is not just known for playing a Horde character, but known for playing only a Horde character, and whose contributions to the game even before he was hired by Blizzard was basically being a high-level endgame raider with specialised knowledge on numbers, abilities, raid and dungeon mechanics etc.) should somehow have intimate knowledge of any and all story content when that has never been his job, nor his field of expertise, is a weird one, no matter who asserts it.
Seriously, I’ve never come across any other game where a game director is expected to be a spring of infinite lore by the community. I think it’s a carry-over expectation from the Metzen days, but at least back then it made sense since Warcaft was a brainchild of Metzen. Why should Ion be expected to know where a bunch of High Elf NPCs live when he doesn’t even play Alliance content?
For that one, I’m pretty much following this color scheme. The brown should look more like brass or a pale bronze. Will I probably use a more regular silvery scheme in the future? Probably! I mean look at my mog, but I gotta start with the OG look. I will probably come up with a more silvery pallette when I draw my current mog.
Both NPC looks are robeless versions, so I wanna stick to that for those looks. I do agree they should have a robe, but so far I’m undecided to whether add a robe version to one of those looks, or go for a whole new look (probably based on the robe Yvera Dawning uses)
He’s a mouthpiece for the company, and the lead director on the game. Wether he has High Elf knowledge at a level that will please the court of public opinion isn’t relevant.
Blizzard has Loremasters, literal people tasked with keeping Ion and the entire team mostly abreast of the lore with regards to the game.
Exactly my point. He’s not going to be on top of every minor lore detail. That’s the purview of writing and story teams.
Which means that, when asked a question about lore in an informal Q&A or interview - particularly one where he hasn’t been given a chance to prepare notes in advance - if the interviewer asks him a leading questing like ‘I don’t think there are even any High Elf settlements left are there?’ (paraphrasing here, but that was the thrust of the question) it’s not too unreasonable to come to the conclusion that by answering ‘I don’t think so.’ comes from a place of ignorance more than anything.
Which, given that there are several clear High Elf locations in the game and in the lore, seems like a reasonable conclusion to draw. Ion didn’t have the chance to prepare, nor the pre-existing knowledge or even game experience of playing Alliance to reasonably be able to make an informed answer to the question.
Which is why his answer was, IIRC, ‘I don’t think so,’ rather than something stronger or more definitive like, ‘There are absolutely no High Elf settlements left, no.’
I’d be more along that thinking, but he made himself quite clear later in the April Q&A, almost a year ago, and we haven’t had any developer quoting against that stance, really, as much as everyone here hates that interview.
For reference, the interview we’re talking about is below:
Indeed! TBH we don’t see many HE priests in WoW at all -what does that imply now?- We do know the Highvale are Light worshipping, but we don’t really see clothies on Quel’danil. So yeh, the only “modern” HE NPC is Alesso.
Heheh I leveled my warrior on that armor! It is definitelly elven (as the Field Plate is half of the Sentinel armor as well) but rather more symplistic or archaic (for example, it lacks any of the common adornments in elven armor), but yeh! I’d like to give it a go!
He did. In that same interview you’re talking about. You can quote Ion against his own stance. “Near-term. Anything is possible.”
and then Alex followed up the Void Elf skin question with the same.
In order to contradict Ion’s statement, you just play Ion’s same statement several moments later.
You love saying that, but saying anything is possible does not equal a counter, nor support, of anything.
If you are broke, and ask me for 10 bucks, and I say no, but say maybe sometime in the future I would, that doesn’t mean I said yes to giving you 10 bucks. You are still broke.
EDIT: Hey neat my face is back
Oh wow! I did the exact same thing for MY warrior! Unfortunately I got rid of it before the transmog system was put in place and I haven’t had the opportunity to get most of the look back (I have gotten the blue recolor though…) I need to go browse the Auction House again.