As long as people remain polite, and discuss the topic in a friendly manner I can’t imagine why it would matter to you that this thread exists.
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He condemned them to be executed the very next morning. There was no one there to challenge him. How would people even know?
Besides, all that others would hear about the event was his version: the blood elves were plotting with the naga. Obviously the situation Garithos left them in would not be told.
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They were locked in Dalaran, which was an alliance city at the time. When the Naga come to rescue them, you have to fight the Kirin Tor to escape, which consists of the alliance races. The Alliance was well aware of his decision to execute them, and had no objections to the verdict.
Ok, in Garithos’s defence… and god I really don’t like defending the a****e… He was not condemning the entire Blood Elf population to death. He was very specifically targeting Kael’Thas and his forces cause he was arguing that Kael’s alliance with the Naga was a very bad thing.
Which in hindsight… We (Alliance and horde including Blood elves) spend not a small amount of time hunting down and slaughtering, fairly mercilessly at that, the troops that were with Kael’Thas at the time. All those guys with Kael in the warcraft 3 campaign? That is the Sunfury forces from outland, they are all bad guys minus a handful who went back to silvermoon like Rommath, and the Scryers.
Yes he is a complete piece of excrement, don’t get me wrong. And I don’t regret anything bad that happens to him personally. But he was right though, working with the Naga is a really bad thing.
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Being on an Alliance city does not mean “the Alliance” was behind it. The city was a ruin devoid of any population, and contact with the southern kingdoms was very poor. We know Stormwind and Khaz Modan were sending troops to help Garithos, but we never saw any other Alliance nation leader being aware of what was happening there. Those were pretty chaotic times.
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Well he intentionally put Kael’thas in a position where he and his forces would either die to the scourge, or accept aid from the Naga and be declared traitors. It was an intentional tactic born from his hate for elves, believing that the Alliance should first and foremost preserve humanity above all else.
Well, many of the Sunfury actually abandon Kael’thas during the burning crusade. Watching Kael descend slowly into madness they returned en mass to Silvermoon, this was both stated in-game and in the novel “shadow of the sun” when Lor’themar visits the Quel’lithien lodge. Only Kael’thas most loyal and elite remained with him. So in hindsight many of the Blood Elves that followed Kael’thas, eventually abandoned him when they discovered the dangerous path he was taking them.
I’m not saying he isn’t a racist prick, but he did look down on dwarves and gnomes as well.
That is a good question though, how many Sunfury did return home, cause I don’t know about you, but I killed a TON of them over the expansion. In fact my warlock was my main, so at that time I was literally ripping their souls out in job lots and using them as novelty toys.
Honestly I thought the ones that returned home after realizing what a bad idea that was number in the dozens compared to the thousands that met a very unseemly end in outland or become fel elves in the whole sunwell platue campaign. Minus the scryers of course.
Despite communications being poor, they were still in contact with the Alliance forces. In the World of Warcraft Encyclopedia posted by Blizzard it specified that the Alliance had no objection to Garithos’ verdict to execute the Blood Elves. It also specified this as the reason why Rommath despises the Kirin tor so vehemently.
The best example of these are the Quel’Lithien Elves who threatened to send Lor’themar head back when he asked them to rejoin.
The fact remains that most of the High Elf groups where more loyal to the Humans and Dwarves then Silvermoon.
And many do blame Dalaran. And the Sunreavers didn’t return after the purge.
The Quel’Danil elves rejected Arcane magic. You forget that one of the reasons they was a protest in the street was over the use of magic. Resulting in silencing and Mind Control.
Not the mention Silvermoon currently dislikes the more woodsy Farstriders. They would not enjoy the ones who rejected the arcane way of life. Nor would they want to go into an arcane infused city to live in.
And they are still kill targets for Horde.
The fact that it took so little for the Silver Covenant to resort to such brutish behavior says way more about their relations then when their governing body did not want hostilities.
And we have no way of knowing if the High Elves seen where part of the Silver Covenant.
They also treated the High Elves like crap and they are watched over like criminals.
And usually after the “Get along” they go right back to killing each other.
Not to mention the idea the Void Elves would force the Void is a completely ludacris headcanon.
We only ever see the Void Elves and High Elves getting along. And even if they did try something they would go to the Alliance races for help first. Never the Horde.
The fact still remains that the most far fetched solution is High Elves rejoining Silvermoon. They still stand for all the things they disagreed over and have only gotten more bad blood since then.
The bonds with their Human and Dwarven Allies have only gotten stronger.
Blood Elves are never leaving the Horde as long as WoW is alive. High Elves would never join the Horde.
It’s just not happening.
It’s literally the same level. He claimed that being a Cat/Bear was fundamental to being a Druid.
He was not merely rejecting High Elves at the time but defending Void Elves. Which where already planned out and not going to change.
Except the High Elf fantasy is not about skin color. If it was the Blood Elves would be the answer to which they are not.
High Elves chose the Alliance over Silvermoon. Void Elves and Blood Elves didn’t. (Void Elves did latter though)
High Elves rejected the use of Dark and Chaotic Magics. Void Elves and Blood Elves didn’t.
High Elves embrace the Ranger/Hunter aspect of their culture. Blood Elves do not and Void Elves are more magic oriented.
High Elves have made Children with Humans. Blood Elves dislike Half Breeds and there are no known examples of Half Human Void Elves.
High Elves (And Void Elves now) despise the Horde. Blood Elves are always going to be a part of it.
And lastly. High Elves are part of the Alliance Identity and Blood Elves are not.
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Well in “shadows of the sun” Lor’themar refers to them collectively as the Sunfury forces, which suggests that far more than a dozen of them returned. Between them, the Scryers and the Elves Kael’thas returned home to Silvermoon it seems that defection was pretty rampant among them.
It’s not fair to say the Blood Elves, implying they gave him a cart blanche to go genocide. But the idea of working with Naga is viewed as treason, yea I can see that going down.
If there was any sort of commander at this point in WoW who was working with Naga, anyone in the Horde or Alliance leadership would treat them as a traitor. They are one of the few enlightened races that is universally seen as and treated as evil. Hell I think there are more friendly Nerubians (the living kind) then there are Naga.
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Can you quote the part?
I hate that I never got the third Chronicle book because it’s so hard to get and expensive around here (the first one was sold in my country, the second one I bought during a trip to the US, the third I couldn’t get yet). Every time someone brings info about it, it’s pretty hard to confirm.
I believe they said it was from the, ‘Shadow of the Sun,’ story. If you’re looking for a quote:
“Several weeks ago a number of the Sunfury forces returned to us.”
No, the part about the rest of the Alliance being fine with Garithos’ intended execution of the blood elves.
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Ah. I don’t believe that was in the Chronicles to be honest. I can double-check.
How it was written is important.
I can understand if it’s something like “The Alliance knew about it after the fact, and heard only Garithos’ version of the story”.
But a “They gave Garithos permission to execute the blood elves” wouldn’t make any sense to me.
To be frank, I hate all the Garithos business because he is clearly a plot device to expel the blood elves from the Alliance and send them to Outland. He appeared out of nowhere, fulfilled his role and was eliminated ASAP. He was never referenced anywhere except to tell the blood elf story. And there was never any blatant racism among the Alliance before or after his introduction in the story. It feels very heavy-handed.
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There is no such passage in the Third Volume, at least, not in the relevant paragraphs discussing the events that transpired.
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Well, the Quel’lithien elves motives are far different than the majority of High elves on Azeroth, as they’ve been isolated from the world and have been cut off from all the developments and growth the Sin’dorei have been through since their departure. During Lor’themar’s visit to the lodge he had surprised them quite a few times with recent events, and they still showed keen interest in state of affairs in Silvermoon. In addition their anger was more so stirred by Nathanos leading the undead into the lodge for the registry, and had that not occurred things may have played out far differently.
I don’t necessarily agree, as even the Silver Covenant and Vereesa head Halduron’s request for help in aiding Silvermoon, to which she states that Quel’thalas is her home, and that she would not see it fall into the hands of their ancient enemy. Suggesting that even in exile High Elves are still loyal to their homeland.
Some do blame Dalaran, and some don’t. The blood elves don’t all agree with each other, some groups don’t even like each other very much like the Farstriders and Magisters, but that doesn’t suggest that they not loyal to one another. And “kill” targets doesn’t really mean much to be honest, and is more of a game mechanic. For instance Magister Umbric is presence at the Alliance invasion assaults, and yet he is not a kill target and cannot be attacked. I wouldn’t take gameplay mechanics as evidence to lore progression personally.
It wasn’t the Silver Covenant as a “whole” that was acting that way, they were isolated incidents. If this is indicative of bad relations then it would also suggests that High Elves do not like each other, for they can be seen fighting each other in the Dalaran sewers as well, and can even be bribed. The sewers are where all the more clandestine acts take place, but it shouldn’t reflect on the faction as a whole.
Wait, where did they treat the High elves like crap at the Sunwell? From what I saw they’re lounging around on pillows, and carpets, smoking from hookahs. When you first walk in you can even see a group of High Elves and Blood Elves sitting together talking and laughing. I saw no indication of the High elves being watched over like criminals.
The only time I’ve seen High Elves and Blood Elves fight were at the behest of a blood thirsty Jaina which was based on a misunderstanding regarding the Divine Bell. Something that is partially rectified when Jaina meets Lor’themar during the Mists and Pandaria, and learns that the theft of the bell was perpetuated by Hellscream. Besides this event, there have been no other lore events that come to mind that suggest mass amounts of violence between the Blood and High Elves. There are even High Elves working exclusively with Blood Elves in the Paladin order house.
I also never said anything about forcing the void on anyone, Alamara and I were simply discussing the potential dangers void elves present by handing dangerous void magic so recklessly. Unless you’re referring to the Void Elves in the Alliance assaults, which were indeed forcibly channeling the void into the wild life. I can’t understand why you would say that’s ludicrous, but you’re entitled to that opinion.
Well of course we only ever see them getting along, they’ve only just been introduced and have had no time to develop. But according to lore, their cultures clash even more so than the Blood and High Elves. As the Quel’dorei respect nature, and even the gates protecting Silvermoon were constructed by High Elf druids. Silvermoon was built in harmony with nature, and while they did not worship it, they respected it. This is in stark contrast to what we’ve seen of the Void elves, who are forcibly channeling the void into nature, and creating void abominations. They’re dealing closely with chaotic magics that parallel dangerously close to that of the Fel magic they were so apposed to.
You’re entitled to say it’s far-fetched, that’s fine. I’ve presented why I disagree with you without insulting your perspectives or calling your opinions “ludicrous” and I would appreciate the same.
I personally wouldn’t compare druid forms to the balancing, and conflicts that arise with introducing a new allied race, especially one that is practically identical to an existing one. If Void Elves hadn’t been introduced I would be more open to the idea, but since their inclusion I don’t see it as something Ion is gonna cave on, especially considering how personal he made it seem as others have also pointed out.
I was referring to the RP fantasy, which was what was brought up at the panel when asked about the potential for lighter skin tones for void elves to live out the High Elf Fantasy.
Blood Elves, like the High Elves have both actively embraced the light, and now draw from the same fount of magic, while Void Elves present a danger to the sanctity of the Sunwell and practice the same chaotic magic (If not more chaotic) than the Blood Elves.
Blood Elves do indeed embrace the Ranger/Hunter aspect of their culture. This is evident in the Tranquillien, and Farstride Enclave quests in the Ghostlands where you work closely with the Farstriders in repelling the Amani. The Blood Elf Farstriders also combine forces with Vareesa’s Farstriders as well.
Blood Elves have shown interest in humans, Like Terenar Sunstrike’s crush for Fiona, and Kael’thas’ adoration for Jaina and he was the prince of the Blood Elves. If the Sin’dorei had stayed with the Alliance, it’s very likely there would have been many cases of Blood Elf/human children.
High Elves do not despise Blood Elves, and on occasion actually work together with them, and aid each other. In the Hall of the Guardian for the Mage campaign you meet up with a High Elf named Ravandwyr, while accompanying him on a quest you encounter a Blood elf named Esara Verrinde. Not only does he warn her of danger, and save her life, he then offers her a spot in dalaran, and welcomes her to join us. The conflict between High, and Blood Elves is very isolated and rare at best, usually being incited by a third party, but even then is usually resolved.
High Elves are also a crucial part of Blood Elf history, they represent their past and everything they stand for. And with the introduction of the Void elves taking their place as the Thalassian presence on the Alliance we’ve seen less and less of them. The chances that they’ll ever be introduced have dwindled to the point that I’d rather see them implemented in any fashion than brushed off simply because they couldn’t be added to the Alliance. Although I wouldn’t objective to either or as I love High Elves regardless. Again, you don’t have to agree with me, but that’s my stance on it.
Upon rereading it, it’s up to speculation.
" While elves such as Aethas would vouch for the Kirin Tor’s innocence in these events, others like Rommath would accuse the organization of looking the other way. What role the Kirin Tor had in this, if any, is largely unknown. They were, however, known to have a partial control of the city. "
(Sorry about the long response time!)
The fact still remains that because Blood Elves are Horde that they threatened to kill him and would rather live in an undead infested wasteland then return to Silvermoon.
These where not ones who left after the Second War. These are ones who where with Silvermoon until the Mana Tap and use of Fel drove them apart.
The ones who left would be even more spiteful to the Horde.
Not wanting to see the Homeland your Sisters “Died” for taken over by your melenia long enemies is not the same as being on good terms.
But it’s enough to want to let them rejoin. Lets not forget that the largest anti Horde force in Dalaran is a group of High Elves.
It literally means that Horde are going out and Killing them. That’s not something you can argue.
There is even a battle between the High Elves and forsaken that the player takes part in.
The purge is not an isolated incident. The entire group literally imprisoned and kicked the Blood Elves out of Dalaran with many repeated acts of brutality and straight up murder.
You can’t sugarcoat it just because it took place in the sewers. It happened and the Silver Covenant was more than happy to do it.
Go watch a video on the Quel’Delar questline.
High Elves may be allowed there but they sure as heck are not welcomed there.
Jaina only told them to Imprison them. Everything else is on their hands.
They then continued to war with them in the Isle of Thunder.
You are literally stating that the Void Elves would do something to drive the High Elves to the Horde.
Even if it was just an accident they would go to the Alliance for Help or strike out on their own before turning to the Horde.
The idea that the Void Elves would start spontaneously corrupting the High Elves is completely unfounded and wishful thinking.
And even then all the Void Elves use of Void has been on the Battlefield or with Portals that don’t seem to do any harm.
If High Elves where corrupted by the Void then they would have to turn to Alleria or other Alliance members because Silvermoon can’t let Void Infused beings near the Sunwell.
And High Elf Druids where retconned out it seams.
With all do respect. Your idea has a lot of wishful thinking, a lot of sugar coating of important events, and a whole lot of unconfirmed ideas pulled from nowhere.
He literally claimed that the fundamental aspect of being a feral/guardian Druid was being a cat/bear and that there was no other interpretation.
Either he changed his mind, is not the only contributor to these idea, or some combination of the two.
Well RP is a lot more flexible than other means as it basically involves what you can play out within reason.
For non RPers we get it in the story and development and attitude of our characters and that can’t be made up by us.
High Elves do not largely embrace the Light. Some do but High Elf Paladins and the like are rare.
There are High Elves willing to study the Void.
Rangers/Hunters have been playing a smaller and smaller role in the Blood Elf story outside of the occasional joint effort.
If you ask the Guards for the Hunter Trainer he will be shocked you are looking for “One of them” and proceed to call them “Backwards” and “A waste of time”. They treat Warlocks and Rogues with more respect.
Paladins/Blood Knights are revered. If you ask for a Paladin trainer the Guards demand you show the highest respects or your head is on the line.
If you are on a Blood Paladin and /eye a guard they will kneel before you.
Lady Liadrin is also taking more and more of a central role in the Blood Elf narrative. More so they Lor’themar.
In the Sunwell books Kelegoes was disrespected by everyone for being a Half Breed until it was revealed he was a Blue Dragon.
Pretty much every occurence of Half Elves is in areas outside of Silvermoon.
A large number of them do and it has been mentioned in books and short stories that Blood Elves and High Elves dislike each other.
The Silver Covenant is a military group formed to oppose them. That speaks volumes.
And they split off and are now only shown as part of the Alliance narrative. Aside from the odd neutral ones.
The Void Elves, Blood Elves, and High Elves all have different paths now. They are no longer the same people and that’s never going to change.
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