10/08/2018 04:49 AMPosted by
Tomlyn
It's been an interesting read, and I'm pleasantly surprised to see this is still going.
From a purely personal perspective, I'd rather druids than shaman. It'd help differentiate them from the Horde, given that faction's strong shamanic roots. Though, perhaps it's unimportant, given that The Horde's faction identity seems to have eroded quite severely, since cata launched. Blood Elves aren't shaman, mind you, but they aren't druids either. Such a slight push away from the faction probably means little, but I wonder if its worht mentioning this once.
I also feel, selfishly, that The Alliance needs good druid options more than it needs shaman ones. High Elven druids also excite me more because it seems it'd be more the High Elf take on druidism. Whereas proposed shaman ideas, while super cool, usually involve more of a wholesale adoption of Wildhammer culture than a synthesis.
High elven druids would be an exciting option, but I'm more concerned about them being too similar to Night Elves.
A lot of players are already sick of Blizzard watering down and crapping on Night Elf lore, and I really think them being the only elf druid is the only thing left for them (except Demon Hunters I guess). Other than that I would enjoy either class on my high elf.
So what would you think the forms would be if they were given the druid option?
I initially didn't start against the pro-high elf movement but after the constant !@#$%ing over void elves when they were announced and how they handled even the slightest dissent to the idea of a playable copy of a Horde race, I'd just like to see an end of sorts to it. Hell, I thought the void elves would slowly take prominence even before I wanted all alliance high elves dead, now it's just icing on the cake.
Neither was I. I actually supported the original void elf discussion thread from over a year ago as I agreed that void elves could definitely use some more customization options, such as a high elf form like what Aleeria has. Then the creator of that thread decided that working with Void elves wasn't enough and started posting those manifesto threads demanding that high elves should be playable as well. That's when everything went downhill. Where as the void elf thread was relatively civil, the high elf thread quickly grew more and more toxic with every single reposting. As Harlequin said, the pro group would get hostile toward any sort of dissent, spam reporting threads that could potentially take views away from the main thread, villainizing the opposition, and labeling them as trolls. It had gotten so out of control that Blizzard had to actually start deleting the high elf threads for almost a full year due to them always turning into a back and forth screaming match that would never end.
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Here's just one example of the type of friends you have:
https://discordapp.com/channels/433269695760695306/433269695760695308
"Garithos did nothing wrongYesterday at 10:25 PM
Here's my Blizzcon prediction
Vulpera are announced for the Horde
The next slide has a black silhouette with pointy ears
Ion teases about finally revealing the allied race we've all been waiting for
Silhouette fades to reveal the pointy ears were from a horse
Camera pans sideways to reveal a junker gnome riding the horse
Ion gets shot on stage"
Junker Gnomes would be 1000% better then another Elf race.
Yeah sub 1 percent playrate races are better than one that has been asked for since original beta lol.
10/08/2018 06:33 AMPosted by
Lydinie
I initially didn't start against the pro-high elf movement but after the constant !@#$%ing over void elves when they were announced and how they handled even the slightest dissent to the idea of a playable copy of a Horde race, I'd just like to see an end of sorts to it. Hell, I thought the void elves would slowly take prominence even before I wanted all alliance high elves dead, now it's just icing on the cake.
Neither was I. I actually supported the original void elf discussion thread from over a year ago as I agreed that void elves could definitely use some more customization options, such as a high elf form like what Aleeria has. Then the creator of that thread decided that working with Void elves wasn't enough and started posting those manifesto threads demanding that high elves should be playable as well. That's when everything went downhill. Where as the void elf thread was relatively civil, the high elf thread quickly grew more and more toxic with every single reposting. As Harlequin said, the pro group would get hostile toward any sort of dissent, spam reporting threads that could potentially take views away from the main thread, villainizing the opposition, and labeling them as trolls. It had gotten so out of control that Blizzard had to actually start deleting the high elf threads for almost a full year due to them always turning into a back and forth screaming match that would never end.
What you have just said is entirely untrue. Most of our threads were contained to one megathread at a time. The last megathread was the only one that was deleted and it was because of mass reporting that made the automated system take it down. It wasn't moderation but the CMs it was a robot. After that we could never get another thread started for weeks because it would be mass reported. Now we are back. 90% of the non megathreads that mention high elves that have been created for the past couple months are started by anti's or just people tired of seeing high elf threads and they complain about them all even though they are the one creating all of the threads they don't like seeing all the time.
Here's just one example of the type of friends you have:
*truncated*
@Starlagosa could you please post more of these logs? I'm finding them quite fascinating.
It seems strange that you would want more logs unless youâre trying to say all High Elf supporters are a fringe fanatical element. It would, possibly, be more fascinating to see what either of you communicate to others outside of the forums. :)
Regardless, these posts are off topic and do not serve as reasoning for or against inclusion of High Elves as a playable Alliance race.,please try to stay on topic. If you do not have additional arguments against, it would seem beneficial for you to move on.
1 Like
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So....you're just going to dig your heels in and repeat the same beaten to death and disproven arguments regardless of what is actually said, just to voice your opposition?
That literally boils your argument down to 'I don't like it,' which tbh isn't my problem.
I mean, sure, it's your right to say so, I suppose. I can think of better ways to spend your time, but you do you. I'm going to put you on ignore, though. All the best.
Ironic much?
Not really. The difference is your arguments are disproven while ours still stand strong and true. You don't change your arguments and points when they are true.
Hey let's just delete all races but the elves, I mean why have anything else? Turn goblins into short green elves, turn orcs into tall green elves, delete trolls they are just night elves. Gnomes just short elves, humans turn into high elves. Forsaken become vampire elves, turn worgen I to were Elves, Tauren become cow elves. Dwarfs become beared medium height elves.
<span class="truncated">...</span>
Ironic much?
Not really. The difference is your arguments are disproven while ours still stand strong and true. You don't change your arguments and points when they are true.
How are they disproven?
A lot of us are concerned about things that can't be proven. Blood elves Chose the Horde. That is the Lore. The Majority of the High Elves chose the Horde. That is the current story. It's the main High Elf story.
We want to keep the factions separate. We don't want to blur lines anymore than they are. How do you disprove that? We don't want to cause a faction imbalance. The solution to solve the current imbalance is through raiding/pvp racials. Balancing them is a better solution.
There is not enough of a visual distinction between the two. Any and all of the offerings your side has given are just making a better Blood Elf.
Either through body changes which no longer make them a blood elf, dragon elves being the most ridiculous, or through jewelry and tattoos which is not acceptable enough to take away a race from the Horde side and planting it Alliance side. It does not matter when or how long ago High Elves WERE an Alliance race. The Main High Elf story line had them go Horde. End of story. These offshoots would blur the lines between the factions.
None of this are disprovable. You saying so doesn't make it so. I really wish i could find the threads/posts that had all of our reasons in bullet points.
Why should blizzard go the for the Bland and Vanilla when they can add things like Vulpera, Sethrak, Ogres, Vrykul or Jinyu or Ethereals. Hell even things we havent thought of yet? Why go for a 5th Elf race just because the good guys don't have it. just sharing the races we have between factions is dangerous and STALE.
Hey let's just delete all races but the elves, I mean why have anything else? Turn goblins into short green elves, turn orcs into tall green elves, delete trolls they are just night elves. Gnomes just short elves, humans turn into high elves. Forsaken become vampire elves, turn worgen I to were Elves, Tauren become cow elves. Dwarfs become beared medium height elves.
I'm sorry that you're suffering from elf fatigue, honestly you're goblin model deserves to get an update before any other races get added, but if enough people want High Elves then Blizz should consider adding them at some point
I always see in these threads the pro-helf folks saying "why does us having high elves effect you??" Well, it does affect us who don't want them because if they begin to entertain the idea of adding them, it takes away resources that could be used to come up with something truly new and unique. We honestly have far too many of one type of race as it is. And yes, I play a void elf, but mainly for the racial.
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Not really. The difference is your arguments are disproven while ours still stand strong and true. You don't change your arguments and points when they are true.
How are they disproven?
A lot of us are concerned about things that can't be proven. Blood elves Chose the Horde. That is the Lore. The Majority of the High Elves chose the Horde. That is the current story. It's the main High Elf story.
We want to keep the factions separate. We don't want to blur lines anymore than they are. How do you disprove that? We don't want to cause a faction imbalance. The solution to solve the current imbalance is through raiding/pvp racials. Balancing them is a better solution.
There is not enough of a visual distinction between the two. Any and all of the offerings your side has given are just making a better Blood Elf.
Either through body changes which no longer make them a blood elf, dragon elves being the most ridiculous, or through jewelry and tattoos which is not acceptable enough to take away a race from the Horde side and planting it Alliance side. It does not matter when or how long ago High Elves WERE an Alliance race. The Main High Elf story line had them go Horde. End of story. These offshoots would blur the lines between the factions.
None of this are disprovable. You saying so doesn't make it so. I really wish i could find the threads/posts that had all of our reasons in bullet points.
Why should blizzard go the for the Bland and Vanilla when they can add things like Vulpera, Sethrak, Ogres, Vrykul or Jinyu or Ethereals. Hell even things we havent thought of yet? Why go for a 5th Elf race just because the good guys don't have it. just sharing the races we have between factions is dangerous and STALE.
First of all there is already a massive faction imbalance. Currently the horde have a 22% population advantage over the alliance worldwide.
Second we don't want nor care about your blood elves. Adding high elves will not detract from them. The high elves we want were never part of the horde. Most of them were not even citizens of quel'thalas but instead citizens of human kingdoms.
As for the visual issue we have suggested multiple changes ranging from simple hairstyle, warpaint, tattoos, and stance changes to full model changes that yes are entirely justifiable in the lore.
You like to argue that blood elves and high elves are the same but it simply isn't true. The high elves we want have been separated from quel'thalas for hundreds of years. They are not as stuck up or hauty as blood elves culturally.
I always see in these threads the pro-helf folks saying "why does us having high elves effect you??" Well, it does affect us who don't want them because if they begin to entertain the idea of adding them, it takes away resources that could be used to come up with something truly new and unique. We honestly have far too many of one type of race as it is. And yes, I play a void elf, but mainly for the racial.
Does it, though? I mean, let's say High Elves get implemented. You wouldn't know what came second to that decision. That other option could be an astonishingly exciting, inspired creation. But there's an equal (or, given the standard of current Allied Races so far, greater possibility) of them being sub-standard, boring, and uninteresting.
Arguing against an Allied Race on the off chance that something, anything else might come along that's better is a fairly weak argument. You're better off doing some of that legwork yourself.
If you have an idea that you would prefer, or think would be a better addition, by all means, set up a thread, start the discussion, see if other people are on board with the idea. That's what the vulpera thread is about. That's what the San'layn thread is about. And that's what this thread is about.
<span class="truncated">...</span>
How are they disproven?
A lot of us are concerned about things that can't be proven. Blood elves Chose the Horde. That is the Lore. The Majority of the High Elves chose the Horde. That is the current story. It's the main High Elf story.
We want to keep the factions separate. We don't want to blur lines anymore than they are. How do you disprove that? We don't want to cause a faction imbalance. The solution to solve the current imbalance is through raiding/pvp racials. Balancing them is a better solution.
There is not enough of a visual distinction between the two. Any and all of the offerings your side has given are just making a better Blood Elf.
Either through body changes which no longer make them a blood elf, dragon elves being the most ridiculous, or through jewelry and tattoos which is not acceptable enough to take away a race from the Horde side and planting it Alliance side. It does not matter when or how long ago High Elves WERE an Alliance race. The Main High Elf story line had them go Horde. End of story. These offshoots would blur the lines between the factions.
None of this are disprovable. You saying so doesn't make it so. I really wish i could find the threads/posts that had all of our reasons in bullet points.
Why should blizzard go the for the Bland and Vanilla when they can add things like Vulpera, Sethrak, Ogres, Vrykul or Jinyu or Ethereals. Hell even things we havent thought of yet? Why go for a 5th Elf race just because the good guys don't have it. just sharing the races we have between factions is dangerous and STALE.
First of all there is already a massive faction imbalance. Currently the horde have a 22% population advantage over the alliance worldwide.
Second we don't want nor care about your blood elves. Adding high elves will not detract from them. The high elves we want were never part of the horde. Most of them were not even citizens of quel'thalas but instead citizens of human kingdoms.
As for the visual issue we have suggested multiple changes ranging from simple hairstyle, warpaint, tattoos, and stance changes to full model changes that yes are entirely justifiable in the lore.
You like to argue that blood elves and high elves are the same but it simply isn't true. The high elves we want have been separated from quel'thalas for hundreds of years. They are not as stuck up or hauty as blood elves culturally.
I addressed all of your points.
They will not be visually distinctive.
The main High Elf storyline is with the Horde. <------
We fix the current imbalance with racials
You dont see them adding alliance or horde races so visually similar to the other side do you? No, you do not.
I can look at any single void elf and visually tell that its different. I can look at any Nightbourne and tell its visually different. You want a Panda situation. A situation that was a mistake in my opinion. Only way to tell the difference is if they appear red/orange nametag.
Personality traits are not cause for giving the Alliance a HORDE race.
They are the same, you just can't accept reality.
I always see in these threads the pro-helf folks saying "why does us having high elves effect you??" Well, it does affect us who don't want them because if they begin to entertain the idea of adding them, it takes away resources that could be used to come up with something truly new and unique. We honestly have far too many of one type of race as it is. And yes, I play a void elf, but mainly for the racial.
Does it, though? I mean, let's say High Elves get implemented. You wouldn't know what came second to that decision. That other option could be an astonishingly exciting, inspired creation. But there's an equal (or, given the standard of current Allied Races so far, greater possibility) of them being sub-standard, boring, and uninteresting.
Arguing against an Allied Race on the off chance that something, anything else might come along that's better is a fairly weak argument. You're better off doing some of that legwork yourself.
If you have an idea that you would prefer, or think would be a better addition, by all means, set up a thread, start the discussion, see if other people are on board with the idea. That's what the vulpera thread is about. That's what the San'layn thread is about. And that's what this thread is about.
Sethrak. BOOM. Loads more inspiring and awesome than the vanilla flavoring that is Elf#5
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First of all there is already a massive faction imbalance. Currently the horde have a 22% population advantage over the alliance worldwide.
Second we don't want nor care about your blood elves. Adding high elves will not detract from them. The high elves we want were never part of the horde. Most of them were not even citizens of quel'thalas but instead citizens of human kingdoms.
As for the visual issue we have suggested multiple changes ranging from simple hairstyle, warpaint, tattoos, and stance changes to full model changes that yes are entirely justifiable in the lore.
You like to argue that blood elves and high elves are the same but it simply isn't true. The high elves we want have been separated from quel'thalas for hundreds of years. They are not as stuck up or hauty as blood elves culturally.
I addressed all of your points.
They will not be visually distinctive.
The main High Elf storyline is with the Horde. <------
We fix the current imbalance with racials
You dont see them adding alliance or horde races so visually similar to the other side do you? No, you do not.
I can look at any single void elf and visually tell that its different. I can look at any Nightbourne and tell its visually different. You want a Panda situation. A situation that was a mistake in my opinion. Only way to tell the difference is if they appear red/orange nametag.
Personality traits are not cause for giving the Alliance a HORDE race.
They are the same, you just can't accept reality.
You see those things as issues but they really are not. High elves don't take away from the horde identity. If you believe they do then you are kind of shallow. Identity isn't just about appearance. It is about ideals. Also changing the high elf appearance doesn't make it a better looking blood elf. That is entirely subjective. If you think the high elf model would look better than maybe you don't actually want to be a blood elf.
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Not really. The difference is your arguments are disproven while ours still stand strong and true. You don't change your arguments and points when they are true.
How are they disproven?
A lot of us are concerned about things that can't be proven. Blood elves Chose the Horde. That is the Lore. The Majority of the High Elves chose the Horde. That is the current story. It's the main High Elf story.
We want to keep the factions separate. We don't want to blur lines anymore than they are. How do you disprove that? We don't want to cause a faction imbalance. The solution to solve the current imbalance is through raiding/pvp racials. Balancing them is a better solution.
There is not enough of a visual distinction between the two. Any and all of the offerings your side has given are just making a better Blood Elf.
Either through body changes which no longer make them a blood elf, dragon elves being the most ridiculous, or through jewelry and tattoos which is not acceptable enough to take away a race from the Horde side and planting it Alliance side. It does not matter when or how long ago High Elves WERE an Alliance race. The Main High Elf story line had them go Horde. End of story. These offshoots would blur the lines between the factions.
None of this are disprovable. You saying so doesn't make it so. I really wish i could find the threads/posts that had all of our reasons in bullet points.
Why should blizzard go the for the Bland and Vanilla when they can add things like Vulpera, Sethrak, Ogres, Vrykul or Jinyu or Ethereals. Hell even things we havent thought of yet? Why go for a 5th Elf race just because the good guys don't have it. just sharing the races we have between factions is dangerous and STALE.
Lol this isn't even worth replying to. Like the poster you quoted said, everything you say is disproven and has been said a million times before. The trolling is just boring at this point.
We've had these same arguments for almost a year now and it's just cringeworthy to see long write-ups of the same crap every thread.
High Elves are an alliance race with their own leaders, hubs, and lore. If you fail to realize that then you're just troll # 506. It's okay to not want them because you don't like them, but wilfully acting ignorant is just embarrassing.
1 Like
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How are they disproven?
A lot of us are concerned about things that can't be proven. Blood elves Chose the Horde. That is the Lore. The Majority of the High Elves chose the Horde. That is the current story. It's the main High Elf story.
We want to keep the factions separate. We don't want to blur lines anymore than they are. How do you disprove that? We don't want to cause a faction imbalance. The solution to solve the current imbalance is through raiding/pvp racials. Balancing them is a better solution.
There is not enough of a visual distinction between the two. Any and all of the offerings your side has given are just making a better Blood Elf.
Either through body changes which no longer make them a blood elf, dragon elves being the most ridiculous, or through jewelry and tattoos which is not acceptable enough to take away a race from the Horde side and planting it Alliance side. It does not matter when or how long ago High Elves WERE an Alliance race. The Main High Elf story line had them go Horde. End of story. These offshoots would blur the lines between the factions.
None of this are disprovable. You saying so doesn't make it so. I really wish i could find the threads/posts that had all of our reasons in bullet points.
Why should blizzard go the for the Bland and Vanilla when they can add things like Vulpera, Sethrak, Ogres, Vrykul or Jinyu or Ethereals. Hell even things we havent thought of yet? Why go for a 5th Elf race just because the good guys don't have it. just sharing the races we have between factions is dangerous and STALE.
Lol this isn't even worth replying to. Like the poster you quoted said, everything you say is disproven and has been said a million times before. The trolling is just boring at this point.
We've had these same arguments for almost a year now and it's just cringeworthy to see long write-ups of the same crap every thread.
High Elves are an alliance race with their own leaders, hubs, and lore. If you fail to realize that then you're just troll # 506. It's okay to not want them because you don't like them, but wilfully acting ignorant is just embarrassing.
You are free to put me on ignore like the other guy. Though i imagine you will just check what "ignorant" thing i had to say then collapse it again. Thing is Devs don't put the users on ignore so they will see our opposition to this whether you respond to it or not.
I always see in these threads the pro-helf folks saying "why does us having high elves effect you??" Well, it does affect us who don't want them because if they begin to entertain the idea of adding them, it takes away resources that could be used to come up with something truly new and unique. We honestly have far too many of one type of race as it is. And yes, I play a void elf, but mainly for the racial.
Allied races aren't meant to be "new and unique." They're reskins and tweaks of existing races.
I like how people say adding High Elves (And other races) would take away from adding other races but never actually request those other races.
Start your own thread. Not our fault less people want them.
Heck, I've been trying to support Ogres and Forest Trolls but good luck getting a thread that last more than a day.
But fact is, if you're not asking for your thing then that's doing more harm to the hopes of them being implemented then asking for other races ever could.