I understood full well what is being said. What the reality is that just because people post here doesn't mean they aren't posting support in other threads for other races, so what the hell is the point of going "go make another thread/etc" when....people do that? Also, this thread itself is evidence to the developer for how divisive the idea is meaning it serves the purpose of showing that, yeah, a lot of people would be pissed if it happened. You can ask for "new and exciting" and make posts/threads about it and be here saying no.
It's a high elf thread, and we're here to say why we don't want the idea. Best place for Blizzard to read that.
A nerve was struck here I see.
The point is, "across numerous megathreads is cool" as said by Blizzard Blues when talking about Allied Races.
Which AR have megathreads?? Let's see uh there's High Elves and umm who the San'lay/Darkfallen...who else uh Vulpera?
So Blues talking about how it's very good to see engagement with the Allied Races and no other game idea has caused this much engagement, then commenting it being cool to see the Megathreads - of which there are only a few, with High Elves being the biggest of them.
The point is that you're only increasing the engagement around High Elves as an Allied Race.
It doesn't matter if you lent support to other Allied Race combos with one post here or there, the active discussion (aka ENGAGEMENT) around High Elves is one of the highest regardless.
This shows interest to Blizzard, because regardless of if you make a comment saying 'yeah let's do mechagnomes!' the fact that people aren't showing continued interest equates to lesser engagement with the idea which to Blizzard equates to lesser interest.
This is the point, which you fail to grasp, and get annoyed at.
1 Like
10/17/2018 08:03 AMPosted by
Thagh
I understood full well what is being said. What the reality is that just because people post here doesn't mean they aren't posting support in other threads for other races, so what the hell is the point of going "go make another thread/etc" when....people do that? Also, this thread itself is evidence to the developer for how divisive the idea is meaning it serves the purpose of showing that, yeah, a lot of people would be pissed if it happened. You can ask for "new and exciting" and make posts/threads about it and be here saying no.
It's a high elf thread, and we're here to say why we don't want the idea. Best place for Blizzard to read that.
A nerve was struck here I see.
The point is, "across numerous megathreads is cool" as said by Blizzard Blues when talking about Allied Races.
Which AR have megathreads?? Let's see uh there's High Elves and umm who the San'lay/Darkfallen...who else uh Vulpera?
So Blues talking about how it's very good to see engagement with the Allied Races and no other game idea has caused this much engagement, then commenting it being cool to see the Megathreads - of which there are only a few, with High Elves being the biggest of them.
The point is that you're only increasing the engagement around High Elves as an Allied Race.
It doesn't matter if you lent support to other Allied Race combos with one post here or there, the active discussion (aka ENGAGEMENT) around High Elves is one of the highest regardless.
This shows interest to Blizzard, because regardless of if you make a comment saying 'yeah let's do mechagnomes!' the fact that people aren't showing continued interest equates to lesser engagement with the idea which to Blizzard equates to lesser interest.
This is the point, which you fail to grasp, and get annoyed at.
Sethrak, Vulpera, Sanlyan, Ogres, Maknathal.
Well we aren't gonna make an anti-thread when we can contain the elf spam to a single thread.
10/17/2018 08:03 AMPosted by
Thagh
This is the point, which you fail to grasp, and get annoyed at.
I stopped trying to explain it. Part of me was curious to see what they'd come up with, starting their own Megathreads (or trying to). Another part wasn't keen on giving that advice because it would detract from the engagement of the High Elf Allied Race concept.
Let them discuss away. The more people engaged, the better.
10/17/2018 08:07 AMPosted by
Alurna
10/17/2018 08:03 AMPosted by
Thagh
This is the point, which you fail to grasp, and get annoyed at.
I stopped trying to explain it. Part of me was curious to see what they'd come up with, starting their own Megathreads (or trying to). Another part wasn't keen on giving that advice because it would detract from the engagement of the High Elf Allied Race concept.
Let them discuss away. The more people engaged, the better.
We want to contain the High Elf spam, why would be hypocrites and create a new one when this serves just fine?
And agreed, the more differing viewpoints the better. As it shows to blizzard its not such an easy win.
That is what I mean, things can change. But for now the forecast is very unlikely.
Yeah.
Like how "no flying ever again in current content" turned into Pathfinder a week or 2 later after players starting unsubbing so fast that Blizzard was initiating Live Chat via the sub cancelling process.
I hardly think there's enough High Elf fanatics to sway them one way or the other leaving the status quo as is.
10/17/2018 08:07 AMPosted by
Alurna
...
I stopped trying to explain it. Part of me was curious to see what they'd come up with, starting their own Megathreads (or trying to). Another part wasn't keen on giving that advice because it would detract from the engagement of the High Elf Allied Race concept.
Let them discuss away. The more people engaged, the better.
We want to contain the High Elf spam, why would be hypocrites and create a new one when this serves just fine?
And agreed, the more differing viewpoints the better. As it shows to blizzard its not such an easy win.
I think the point being made is that if you think there are other, better ideas than High Elves, then make threads, get the community behind the idea, and show Blizzard - and us - what they are.
Saying 'no' without providing alternative solutions is just meaningless noise.
1 Like
10/17/2018 08:03 AMPosted by
Thagh
I understood full well what is being said. What the reality is that just because people post here doesn't mean they aren't posting support in other threads for other races, so what the hell is the point of going "go make another thread/etc" when....people do that? Also, this thread itself is evidence to the developer for how divisive the idea is meaning it serves the purpose of showing that, yeah, a lot of people would be pissed if it happened. You can ask for "new and exciting" and make posts/threads about it and be here saying no.
It's a high elf thread, and we're here to say why we don't want the idea. Best place for Blizzard to read that.
A nerve was struck here I see.
The point is, "across numerous megathreads is cool" as said by Blizzard Blues when talking about Allied Races.
Which AR have megathreads?? Let's see uh there's High Elves and umm who the San'lay/Darkfallen...who else uh Vulpera?
So Blues talking about how it's very good to see engagement with the Allied Races and no other game idea has caused this much engagement, then commenting it being cool to see the Megathreads - of which there are only a few, with High Elves being the biggest of them.
The point is that you're only increasing the engagement around High Elves as an Allied Race.
It doesn't matter if you lent support to other Allied Race combos with one post here or there, the active discussion (aka ENGAGEMENT) around High Elves is one of the highest regardless.
This shows interest to Blizzard, because regardless of if you make a comment saying 'yeah let's do mechagnomes!' the fact that people aren't showing continued interest equates to lesser engagement with the idea which to Blizzard equates to lesser interest.
This is the point, which you fail to grasp, and get annoyed at.
I mean you can continue away at these directionless megathread which have pro-helfers and anti-helfers continue to bait and flame each other over nothing.
My question is: if the Alliance quel'dorei were said to be on the table during the original discussion of sub races by developers...then they never came and got ren'dorei instead. What were the reasons to why they werent implemented? Why go for the controversial and dark image of the rendorei over the ones already in the Alliance?
...
We want to contain the High Elf spam, why would be hypocrites and create a new one when this serves just fine?
And agreed, the more differing viewpoints the better. As it shows to blizzard its not such an easy win.
I think the point being made is that if you think there are other, better ideas than High Elves, then make threads, get the community behind the idea, and show Blizzard - and us - what they are.
Saying 'no' without providing alternative solutions is just meaningless noise.
We have given several alts. Sethrak, Vulpera, Ogre, Jinyu, Vrykul, furbolg just for obvious starters.
This is the main problem of the argument, you are so wrapped on an arbitrary biological division that you disregard any sociocultural and political an ideological differentiation, that are FAR more meaningful in terms of self determination than "race"
Ideologically the Blood Elves of Quel'thalas aren't polar opposites of the Alliance kingdoms nor directly inline with the more extreme Horde kingdoms.
I'm sorry but at the point you literally end up on different factions because of political and ideological and cultural differences, claiming this is just untenable.
The fact that Dalaran itself is a cosmopolitan city of Humans, Gnomes and Elves is already evidence that the city itself is a multicultural state. That their whole architecture is unique to that melting pot is evident. That the people that live there have a distinct cultural sensibility than their places of origins is pretty clear.
Continuing claiming that High Elves on the alliance don't have a different lifestyle and ideology and culture than their more isolationist Blood Elven brethren, who has gone through their own coltural shift post Third War, is simply obtuse.
The fact that the alliance has now TWO groups of thalassian elves already discredits the "human racism" nonsense. This is not to discount Garithos' actions and their consequences, they are very much real. But to pretend they have any impact on the current alliance as it stands it's simply wrong.
Void Elves are already precedent; you don't get to discount facts because you don't like them.
10/17/2018 07:25 AMPosted by
Alurna
This "you're supporting us just by being here" bs isn't anything, we're showing Blizzard exactly why they should continue to not do it and actually move in the direction of having something be 100% final like killing them off so only void and blood elves remain.
Not much point to that, we'll just start asking for High Elves from an Alternate Timeline that is near identical to the current one with the exception being the High Elves didn't get killed off.
Personally, I'd just had to pass on that one. I really wouldn't care about a group of HE that are not the HE I actually like... pretty much like Void Elves are.
Sure, like with maghar, I can pretend to be an Outland one with the aesthetic, so that's something I would enjoy, but yeah. AU High Elves? Meh.
...
Until it is definitive than it means what it says. Non answer or not.
No it's called "we dont want to piss off people by saying no"
It's why in the QandA the death knight starting zone question was not a flat no. Sure, they could change it....but really?
He said that they have plans int he future they are not ready to say yet about allied race death knights.
...
No it's called "we dont want to piss off people by saying no"
It's why in the QandA the death knight starting zone question was not a flat no. Sure, they could change it....but really?
He said that they have plans int he future they are not ready to say yet about allied race death knights.
Like how High Elves were mentioned during the talk about subraces right?
...
He said that they have plans int he future they are not ready to say yet about allied race death knights.
Like how High Elves were mentioned during the talk about subraces right?
So if Allied Races start to be allowed Deathknights are you going to rescind your take on the High Elf possibility?
hm, well it's still a crappy idea
bliz if you are going to appease the whiners do it your way
make them like pandas, can be either side, let alliance stick that in their craw and suck it
hell, you could make an expansion out of it
Well we aren't gonna make an anti-thread when we can contain the elf spam to a single thread
So you are saying you simply don't want high elves because you personally don't want them. I see no reason to debate whether any race is valid to be made playable or not. The threads are for the discussion for their addition and how it can come about as well as ideas people would like to see for customization regarding them. They are not for whether or not you think they should be playable.
1 Like
10/17/2018 08:36 AMPosted by
Thagh
...
Like how High Elves were mentioned during the talk about subraces right?
So if Allied Races start to be allowed Deathknights are you going to rescind your take on the High Elf possibility?
I would say, unless something happens that specifically allowed Allied Races to have Death Knights (say Bolvar starts making more), then no. The bulk of Thalassian Death Knights would've been Blood Elves or High Elves who fell defending Quel'Thalas during the Third War. It makes sense for them to want to continue to defend their homeland.
Besides it'd force the question of, "Why doesn't Koltira just go Alliance?"
10/17/2018 08:36 AMPosted by
Zahruk
hm, well it's still a crappy idea
bliz if you are going to appease the whiners do it your way
make them like pandas, can be either side, let alliance stick that in their craw and suck it
hell, you could make an expansion out of it
That doesn't make sense. They don't have relations with one another. Blood elves come from quel'thalas. The high elves we ask for and want come from human nations. They don't come from the same group. They are already mortal enemies.
And you think it'll be make or break for someone who doesn't want them but they get added?
Oh ofc not. Myself for example will go on playing the game.
I've asked repeatedly the same question in this thread and there's been no answer: HOW DOES ADDING HIGH ELVES TO THE GAME IMPACT ANYONE BUT THE PERSON WHO WANTS TO PLAY A HIGH ELF?
Models? They'll make 'em look different.
Waving this answer is not a magic cure-all if you don't have a differing model thats viable to someone beyond your standards.
Also you've gotten the answers to it several times you either don't accept it or ignore it. I'm actually terrible at getting what i mean and want to say out on paper. It's a bit hard to coalesce everything for me, which is why i wish i could find those threads from earlier in the year/late last year that had all of my points put into a nice bullet point format.
Faction Balance? It's already imbalanced ... more people are playing horde than alliance 55%/45% and growing.
That's a real issue that can be solved without giving High Elves. More attractive Allied racials in regards to raids/dungeons and 1 free faction swap maybe.
Won't be able to tell them apart in a battleground? Haven't noticed a bevy of players crying about trying to kill a Pandaren on the same faction as they are.
battlegrounds aren't the only place youd see them. I routinely see people bring up Pandas being dual faction as being a stupid idea,or memed about on the forums.
Want original and new races? Not what allied races are, sorry. They're reskins of existing races.
Ok, so just because you have an idea for an Allied race doesn't mean its gonna be implemented. An allied race is only limited by the skeletal structure. Hence Worgen model for Sethrak or Goblin for Vulpera. Both ideal candidates for Allied races yet have no ties to either race lorewise. Hmmm. *thinking*
Too many elves? So what else do you want to add .... gnomes? humans? dwarves? Where are the threads calling for all these other Alliance races y'all want other than elves? <insert crickets chirping>
See the above <yawn>
There is opposition to High Elves but it is far from RATIONAL opposition and the only reason for it is that the developers want to protect their precious Horde players who predominantly play Blood Elves and will lose their minds over having to debate changing to Alliance because they chose a race regardless of what faction it was on and now it's on both sides.
Subjective as i think a bunch of you are irrational.
You can wrap it up in "faction pride" all you want but it boils down to y'all are too cheap to think about spending the money to play a decent looking elf on the Alliance side and so you don't want anyone else to play one either.
Wtf? How am i meant to counter this? By flaunting how many tokens someone buy's per month just for the gold? Dude, I'm a millionaire in game i could buy race changes out the wazoo. What a stupid thing for you to say.
And yet you still provided not one reason to oppose them that would impact your game play. No one has indicated how Alliance High elves would impact their gameplay if they were added. Find me a thread. Go for it .... a RATIONAL, LOGICAL opposing point of view that makes sense in an expansion where allied races are being added ....
... waiting ....
You've got bank in the game? Cool. Not everyone does .... and you won't convince me that there are Blood Elf players who are so adamantly anti-Helf taking that stance because they don't want the quandry of being tempted to join the faction they would have joined had Blood Elves been on the Alliance and not horde. They don't want to leave their guilds and they don't want to NOT be the only pretty elves in the game.
Go on a Void Elf thread: All the Blood Elves support Void Elves. It's blatant. "But but but .. MUH MODELS!"
As for the Panda problem: we're not talking about a neutral faction. We're talking about an Alliance race with different models from the parent race (many different types of which COULD be ideas having been posted in the threads) so where does this cause a problem? Do Horde groups spend time analyzing the horns of the Tauren to figure out which it is? I've never gone into an Alliance raid trying to figure out if it's a goat or lightforged goat in group? Other than PVP, where would it be a problem?
The only time pro-helf people get irrational is when they start up a thread to exchange ideas about how High elves could be added to the game and then people come into the thread to spam their irrational reasons they shouldn't.
Nothing you said has any weight to it and, again, doesn't answer the question: How will it impact your game?
Stop the irrational hyperbole Anti-Helfers. It just comes across as the usual "I don't like the idea of them so I don't want anyone to have them" crap that ends up on these threads.
1 Like
10/17/2018 08:36 AMPosted by
Thagh
...
Like how High Elves were mentioned during the talk about subraces right?
So if Allied Races start to be allowed Deathknights are you going to rescind your take on the High Elf possibility?
No, because my original question is still posed and not answered.
We have given several alts. Sethrak, Vulpera, Ogre, Jinyu, Vrykul, furbolg just for obvious starters.
So, I quickly skimmed through GD to look for these suggestions you just made in terms of community support, thread activity and the like.
In the past 24 hours, only a thread about Vulpera has been actively posted in.
Sethrak? Nope.
Ogres? Nope.
Jinyu? Nope.
Vrykul? Nope.
Furbolg? Nope.
What has been raised? San'layn, Lightforged Undead, and Night Elf Worgen.
Not one of any of those threads has the same level of activity or support as High Elves.
Every alternative on GD is considerably less popular than this idea. If we factor in previous threads then High Elves' popularity vs alternatives grows exponentially.
So going back to my point of 'if you have a better alternative instead of High Elves, show us' then it's pretty easy to categorically say that there isn't an Allied Race idea more popular than High Elves right now.
tl;dr you say that there are better alternatives? Judging by the relative lack of community support, the numbers suggest that the broader community disagrees with you.
1 Like