What kind of in-game service is being traded for real money? I would challenge a ban based on that rule.
under the purview of the original Warcraft ToS, any time RL currency became involved in any way, shape or form was considered an exchange for in-game services and strictly prohibited
and this is what Kevin Jordan had to say about it a little while ago on his discord:
Kevin JordanToday at 5:10 PM
cash prizes for in game stuff is a very tricky area. It can easily lead to some really sketchy stuff that might lead to players wanting blizzard to take action. E.g. someone advertises a tournament and people contribute and then the organizer takes off with most/all of the money. Players will want blizzard to intervene on their behalf because it happened in their game but it’s not really blizzard’s place to do that.
but by doing nothing, blizzard can then be accused of siding with the organizers/thieves etc…
ThelorasToday at 5:10 PM
Yea it can become a downward spiral imho
Kevin JordanToday at 5:11 PM
so the safer policy is to prevent it entirely, but an honest, organized, social event with prizes (of some value) are a cool thing to have in the game.
people on the internet…it’s why we can’t have nice things. ![:stuck_out_tongue:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/stuck_out_tongue.png?v=6" ":stuck_out_tongue:")
ThelorasToday at 5:12 PM
My philosophy would be ingame prizes for the winners- having cash prizes raise a whole list of ethical issues around them
ie: participants all pitch in 50g ot 100g and the top 3 finishers get the net profits
Kevin JordanToday at 5:14 PM
yeah, in game currency is a great approach…but of course Beta currency has little value in this case. they could have organized it without any prizes beyond bragging rights and it probably would have been a huge success but obviously we humans love a little gambling in our events.
ThelorasToday at 5:18 PM
One of the ironies I posted about in my thread regarding cash prize duel tournaments though, is the fact that all.private servers strictly prohibit it. And are therefore more in line with the spirit if not the rule of law from the original WoW ToS than Blizzard is
ThelorasToday at 5:23 PM
My position is that Blizzard allowing RL cash to enter and influence the game is a major one of those death by 1000 cuts which has led to the sorry state that retail WoW is now - LFD/LFR, gear score, cash game tokens etc
2 Likes
The problem seems to be worried about getting scammed. As far as i’m aware none of the participants gave money to be in the tournament. If so ban tournaments that require RL money to be in it. Lets say I host a tournament and pay out of pocket for the prizes. whats wrong with that?
to what end though - that’s where the slippery slope ends up heading down to - eSports are part of the reason why retail WoW is a complete and utter failure…death by 1000 cuts as I said before
PCGamesN: Low morale at Blizzard Esports is reportedly leading to high-profile departures.
https://www.pcgamesn.com/kim-phan-leaving-blizzard-esports-low-morale
once you add money incentives - the game aspect starts to break down
no one knows where that $2000 came from. And those that know are not talking.
It only becomes a problem if you start catering and changing the game in anyway to appease the promoters. You do nothing. don’t change balance don’t help them, nothing.
It only breaks down once Blizzard would be trying to make money off of it.
DING DING DING
um, how many streamer priviledge threads have been written so far and the beta in less than 2 weeks old…
PS Kevin went on to say that what Trollgodx did was not worthy of any GM intervention - he may have been a jerk - but what he did was certainly not breaking the ToS
2 Likes
The issue arises when a “pool” is created to hand out prizes. If participants contribute to that pool, then everything is sketchy and this is why in-game casinos and other things were prevented from being advertised. Most events like this ‘skim’ or take part of collection - be it in-game gold or prizes, and don’t hand out everything, and that’s where it’s sketchy.
Again, what people do in their own private time is their business, and that’s what Blizzard has clarified their stance on advertisements, in-game gambling, etc. This hasn’t changed, especially since Wrath, when that conversation began.
This is why Blizzard does not condone third party tournaments, most often it sounds like there are invitations or there’s an open challenge for participants to make wagers or participants have to ‘ante up’.
Which is exactly what happened yesterday…people got catered to and the game was changed to appease the promoters.
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TELL HIM WHAT HE’S WON BOB!
We are not talking about casinos here.
You are in brand new territory here with what went on yesterday.
That tournament for RL money set a precedent in case you were not aware of that.
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So we give in to irrational peoples psychosis?
Agree they just need to find a better place to host it. However you cant say they went over the top with their actions. Don’t think they are beta testing trolls, they let it go on till the last few fights, they didn’t ban him only trolled him to wintersprings. I think what they did was just fine and funny actually.
You honestly this upset over tournaments being hosted for RL money or just hate streamers?
Here is what I care about all this. I don’t care at all.
Have tournaments for w/e you want let people get scammed out of RL money for playing in these tournaments. I don’t care. Their loss. The only reason this is a problem is because people don’t want anyone to get hurt from being scammed and blizzard can get sued. Being scammed is a part of life you learn and move on.
This whole idea of trying to save everyone from anything bad is pathetic.
We are talking about gambling - however you want to justify it with money or gold or pets or whatever. What you do outside of the game is what you do outside of the game. The issue is that they told people that this was a tournament that was for real money.
How did they get it? The organizers aren’t talking. And that’s what I’m talking about. I’m thinking they got the participants to pony up the cash, and revealing that source would be what gets them into hot water.
You can do whatever you want, so long as you don’t advertise it - and they did.
for context:
ThelorasToday at 5:03 PM
Should they have been banned for disrupting that in-game funeral the way
Trollgodx was yesterday?
Kevin JordanToday at 5:05 PM
No. Was any action taken against Trollgodx?
ThelorasToday at 5:06 PM
Some say ban some say ported to another zone
Not sure though
Do you think what he did was bannable?
Kevin JordanToday at 5:06 PM
all I’ve heard is that he sat on some totems. was that the extent of it? if so, then no. I don’t think any action should have been taken
ThelorasToday at 5:07 PM
I didnt watch the tournament myself but yes that was what was described he was doing
Some people say he was banned and removed from the beta while some say a GM ported him to winterspring
GizmodgetToday at 5:14 PM
Troll god and his friend blocked LoS to totems and constantly stood on top of duel members making it hard to see their animations and such. Entire duel group moved to an obscure zone just to get away and he followed to troll more. Offering to leave for 50g.
ThelorasToday at 5:15 PM
Yes but is that breaking the ToS though?
Hes under no obligation to listen to other players
Kevin JordanToday at 5:15 PM
he’s definitely being a jerk, but that’s not enough to take action imo
GizmodgetToday at 5:15 PM
Possible depends on how griefing is defined.
ThelorasToday at 5:15 PM
My position as well kevin
It’s a jerk move
But not bannable
Kevin JordanToday at 5:16 PM
but yeah, clever use of game mechanics or exploit is where we have to dive into
GizmodgetToday at 5:16 PM
Aye, bannable is different than no action though.
ThelorasToday at 5:16 PM
Right if he hacked the game to cause participants to not perform or dir
Die
GizmodgetToday at 5:17 PM
I am a proponent of just sending him away frim the area which is not banning but is an action.
ThelorasToday at 5:17 PM
This is an example of right click petition notification from my pov
Which has become rampant on retail
Kevin JordanToday at 5:18 PM
true @Gizmodget . They could take the stance that one is interfering with the fun of many and could be teleported away but that opens up a huge can of worms that blizzard are not staffed or prepared to support in the future.
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Really ? Who gambled ?
Exactly. Who gambled? They aren’t talking.
And if the organizers aren’t saying anything, then there’s nothing to talk about. If the participants ponied up the cash, they aren’t talking either, are they?
slippery slope crits you for 1337 irony damage
Ok so he essentially stand where I do. I agree it’s not breaking any TOS and the action taken was mundane. I found it funny also. What are you trying to prove here? that the original creaters of the game would not have acted in the same way?
And you don’t care…