The time is here to revisit DK pvp modifiers

[Raziael-moonrunner (Raziael)]

@Kelliste-antonidas

It has nothing to do with coding,

Its the actual answer, you don’t like it b/c it’ s too simple I can’t help you.

@Kelliste-antonidas

Also, I have already explained why I am talking about pve, its the primary balancing force within WoW. I said this many comments ago but you are just deciding to ignore it for whatever reason.

Because its not a relevant point, see every other class beating 2h?

@Kelliste-antonidas

So are you going to admit to being wrong about this design that people like me warned about in SL beta when this whole “2h should hit hard with obliterate” nonsense was going on. Thats all it had for it before and thats all it has going for it now. Instead of focusing on the spec and implementing 2h properly this is what people wanted, live with it.

na what’s ‘wrong’ is biased balancing. The devs don’t just do it to DK’s in pvp Rogues got smashed and DH also got destroyed. Every season the meta is some mix of Lock/Sham/Mage/Warrior.

@Kelliste-antonidas

Where are you getting this disingenuous argument from?

People theory crafting 2h? Biceps pump and another player named FrostKnight who usually is in the top for FDK in M+.

@Kelliste-antonidas

Duhhhh. But thats not at all what that quote is addressing. Its like you are trying to dance around everything.

Actually that’s you.

@Kelliste-antonidas

Yes there is. This one. The one people like you asked for.

Not in the universe Ret/Warrior/Warlock/Mage/Feral/Enhance/Balance/WW Currently exist in. Those classes have no trade offs for their damage and all are better than 2h in pvp or pve.

@Kelliste-antonidas

Nor should it.

Based on what exactly?

@Kelliste-antonidas

we arent healers

We are now, see new Spell Warden/AMZ which actually count as healing done.

@Kelliste-antonidas

Death’s Advance with a built in freedom, Wraith Walk with build in root removal, DA with another movement speed, double charges. We arent ultra slow.

DA does not bust you out of roots my guy. Its a sprint that prevents slows. Freedom breaks roots.

@Kelliste-antonidas

So increase it to 113%. What do you think that would do to pve? It would make it OP to the point that it would just get nerfed through another way like a mastery nerf.

No it wouldn’t everything is choice. I know that concept is too much for you though so I’m going to keep pushing it.

@Kelliste-antonidas

So redesign KM… so KM is the problem here got it.

Me explaining the stat priority in pvp which is correct and you not grasping why it is correct doesn’t make my point invalid. Try being less arrogant.

@Kelliste-antonidas

Obliterate shouldnt be cleaving period because thats another part of the equation that is holding Obliterate back.

Again not really, other classes have their hardest hitting abilties cleaving all the time.

@Kelliste-antonidas

It is fully functional, I dont think you actually mean functional though because it works as intended.

Not in pvp, there are two reduction mods on the spell when engaged in pvp combat.

@Kelliste-antonidas

At this point you just want Frost to be overpowered.

Standard “I don’t have a point so Maoist struggle session comment” which is trash.

@Kelliste-antonidas

Again just more OP status requests and would be nerfed within 3 days of a patch going live.

Again trash argument. Did you know Fists of fury, blade dance both prevent cc? Deep Breath? Fel lance? Blade Storm? How about Aura Masteries for caster? New Bestial Wrath prevents the pet army from being cc’d?

You are just trolling my guy. Badly at that.

[Dreadmoore-wyrmrest-accord (Dreadmoore)]

Kelliste is wrong.

[Blackfalcon-borean-tundra]

It ain’t nothing new

[Iliketurtles-garithos]

Everyone should just block them and move on.

I did a long time ago, and still laugh when I see their entire posts broken down in other posts.

Ain’t worth your time to argue with em, just let em talk into the void as it should be.

[Areo-misha]

They’re just the kinda person you can say the sky is blue and they will argue it’s actually red… Best solution is to not even mention their name let them seep into irrelevance and devoid of any interaction

[Dreadmoore-wyrmrest-accord (Dreadmoore)]

Ye. I have her on ignore. Just reminding people that she’s wrong.

[Kelliste-antonidas (Kelliste)]

@Raziael-moonrunner

Its the actual answer, you don’t like it b/c it’ s too simple I can’t help you.

Then the conversation is over. Not reading past this. I cant help you or anyone else with numbers or otherwise, if you guys want to live in an alternative reality thats fine by me.

[Raziael-moonrunner (Raziael)]

You weren’t helping, and if you’re not a Dev you or someone else inside the company that can affect change then good riddance. Everything you said was pure conjecture and an attempt to derail.

@literally everyone else, on with the discussion.

[Kelliste-antonidas (Kelliste)]

@Raziael-moonrunner

You weren’t helping

Thats your opinion, but when you ignore reality you arent helping things either.

@Raziael-moonrunner

Everything you said was pure conjecture and an attempt to derail.

No it wasnt. Thats just a flat out lie and thats why you always get into arguments with people which devolves into you calling people names.

[Raziael-moonrunner (Raziael)]

You called me a flat earther and I called you nothing, just used fact and logic till you had nothing to come back with.

Confusing me for someone else?

[Kelliste-antonidas (Kelliste)]

I did not call you a flat eather. I said that I know of another group that is acting like people on these forums when evidence and proof is presented and thats flat earthers. They will ignore a ship disappearing from the bottom up just like people on here are ignoring that Obliterate sees probably the biggest jump due to all of these modifiers like KM, stacked Bonegrinder, Whelps, Unleashed Frenzy. We arent talking about modifiers like “improved Obliterate” and the damage before that and after, we are talking about the things that happen within gameplay that leads to this massive jump.

Obliterates massive jump in damage, which has been proven and people notice regularly yet cant understand that its a pita to balance across the game.

15k-200k is a huge jump, a bigger jump than 55k-200k. This is for pve, but you dont have anything else to look at. I cant pull numbers up from a pvp match and compare them. So you have to go off of what is able to be brought. You just showed a devastation evoker burst someone… and? What does that have to do with talking about Obliterate and the issues it has going forward? NONE.

This is why I get annoyed with these forums, I either have to deal with trolls like Dreadmoore that just character hops and says “Kelliste is wrong” over and over with no actual input on any subject and when grilled had to take back what they have been saying because they were just lying and other people just lap it up.

The pvp modifiers though, damage wise, arent going anywhere. BoS isnt going to go back to 100% effectiveness and neither is FwF.

Funny thing is the top DK in 3’s is a Frost Dk at rank 154 so they cant be as garbage as people on these forums try to say, maybe… just maybe… its the people on the forums that are just bad.

[Raziael-moonrunner (Raziael)]

@Kelliste-antonidas

Obliterates massive jump in damage, which has been proven and people notice regularly yet cant understand that its a pita to balance across the game.

Wow, almost like it works exactly the same as every other specs hardest hitting ability except its tuned lower base line hence one of the problems with the spec.

@Kelliste-antonidas

Funny thing is the top DK in 3’s is a Frost Dk at rank 154 so they cant be as garbage as people on these forums try to say, maybe… just maybe… its the people on the forums that are just bad.

Funny thing, FDK had the lowest rep of any melee except outlaw and DK R1 cutoff overall was lower than any other dps spec (both Frost and Unholy) except Outlaw and Fury.

Now that end of season data is out, it’s very easy to extract which classes over and under performed.

The average R1 Solo Shuffle Rating (Top 0.1%) across all DPS & Healing Specs is 3366. Any spec with a higher R1 cutoff, indicates the class is performing above the average. This means that the best players of the spec are able to beat relatively equally skilled players of other specs more easily. Anything lower, is performing below the average.

Here are the results:

Specs Performing Above Average:
Druid - Balance|6%
Warlock - Demonology|5%
Shaman - Elemental|5%
Warlock - Destruction|5%
Paladin - Retribution|5%|
Mage - Arcane|4%|
Shaman - Enhancement|4%
Mage - Frost|4%
Hunter - Beast Mastery|4%
Monk - Windwalker|4%
Monk - Mistweaver|3%
Druid - Feral|2%
Mage - Fire|2%
Hunter - Survival|2%
Priest - Shadow|2%
Shaman - Restoration|1%
Rogue - Subtlety|1%

Specs Performing at Average:
Paladin - Holy|0%
Priest - Discipline|0%
Warrior - Arms|0%
Warlock - Affliction|0%
Evoker - Preservation|0%

Specs Performing Below Average:
Rogue - Assassination|-2%
Hunter - Marksmanship|-2%
Evoker - Devastation|-4%
Demon Hunter - Havoc|-4%
Druid - Restoration|-4%
Death Knight - Frost|-5%
Priest - Holy|-9%
Death Knight - Unholy|-9%
Rogue - Outlaw|-14%
Warrior - Fury|-16%

The big winners and losers of Solo Shuffle

Now that end of season data is out, it’s very easy to extract which classes over and under performed. The average R1 Solo Shuffle Rating (Top 0.1%) across all DPS & Healing Specs is 3366. Any spec with a higher R1 cutoff, indicates the class is performing above the average. This means that the best players of the spec are able to beat relatively equally skilled players of other specs more easily. Anything lower, is performing below the average. Here are the results: Specs Performing Above Ave…

What’s bad is your trolling which is what I’m sure you were doing b/c you’d have checked pvp rep.

BTW first spec appearing at #154 is trash.

[Kelliste-antonidas (Kelliste)]

@Raziael-moonrunner

Wow, almost like it works exactly the same as every other specs hardest hitting ability

It doesnt.

@Raziael-moonrunner

Funny thing, FDK had the lowest rep of any melee except outlaw

So what? Representation has nothing to do with being able to achieve something. There is only 1 President, and we have only had a limited number, but its still achievable. Its only the people that give up and make excuses which are the ones that ultimately fail.

[Raziael-moonrunner (Raziael)]

@Kelliste-antonidas

It doesnt.

It does, which I’ve demonstrated in this thread. Anyone who doesn’t think so is being intellectually dishonest.

@Kelliste-antonidas

So what? Representation has nothing to do with being able to achieve something.

In this case it actually does though, because when something is bad in a game like this, which is not real life it’s not well represented.

@Raziael-moonrunner

This means that the best players of the spec are able to beat relatively equally skilled players of other specs more easily.

This. Not my quote its from the OP in the arena forum. Frost being very low rep and DK overall having a lower cutoff for class specific R1 means they were objectively bad this season. Especially since at the start they Dk was the second highest represented dps in the game in pvp. Both reg 3s and Solo.

[Kelliste-antonidas (Kelliste)]

@Raziael-moonrunner

It does, which I’ve demonstrated in this thread. Anyone who doesn’t think so is being intellectually dishonest.

It doesnt, and you havent.

@Raziael-moonrunner

In this case it actually does though, because when something is bad in a game like this, which is not real life it’s not well represented.

No, it doesnt. Representation tells you nothing but the popularity of something, not the performance and there is no way to distinguish if something is good, bad, fun, easier, harder or anything else due to “representation”.

[Areo-misha]

For 2 seconds, literally just 2 seconds use some critical thinking. At the most BASIC level. Do you think people will play a bad spec? Or a good spec? Raziael literally GAVE YOU THE DATA and you deny it. You take whatever data is most suitable to you, like “FrOsT dK wAS rANkeD 154” and think that means it’s good, not in the slightest. Then you disregard actual data that PROVES you wrong. Your arguments are littered with black and white generalizations, and you refute any contrary data. Why? Why live your life as a troll?

[Iliketurtles-garithos]

Just ignore them PLEASE.

Should be a sticky post at the top of the DK forums that says:

“Welcome to the DK forums, in order to enjoy your time here and have a constructive conversation please ignore —that person—, Have a nice day!”

[Areo-misha]

You right man

[Kelliste-antonidas (Kelliste)]

Yeah, i did use critical thinking and came to the conclusion that representation is just a popularity contest. What people find fun, overpowered, underpowered, not fun, and many other reasons go into representation of classes / specs. Just look at warcraft logs and its standing in overall at 90th percentile. Its #2 dps overall with about 1/10 the representation of Retribution paladin.

Representation can be caused by a multitude of things.

@Areo-misha

Raziael literally GAVE YOU THE DATA and you deny it.

What data? A population sheet is not data that tells you anything so its not worth looking at.

@Areo-misha

You take whatever data is most suitable to you, like “FrOsT dK wAS rANkeD 154”

What is with this middle/highschool typing nonsense that people are doing now? What do you think that does while also getting wrong what I said? I said the top DK in 3’s is a Frost DK at 154 so it is absolutely capable of performing well.

@Areo-misha

Your arguments are littered with black and white generalizations, and you refute any contrary data.

No thats you guys.

@Areo-misha

Why? Why live your life as a troll?

Im not a troll, but I rather be labeled a troll instead of being you that can only call people autistic instead of have an actual conversation.

This post of yours does absolutely NOTHING like all of your others.

[Emowan-cenarion-circle]

@Kelliste-antonidas

Im not a troll

Survey says: False.