Utter and completely NONSENSE.
People who WANT to socialize WILL.
Those who DONT…WONT.
This game isnt a therapist or psychiatrist telling some introvert they need to get out more and get with people. Its a VIDEO GAME.
And believe it or not it ISNT ‘socializing’ in the same way as leaving ones home and getting out with people in the REAL world.
This social aspect of a video game is an absolute joke… at least the screams that LFR must be removed so that players will ‘socialize’.
How absurd.
its no more socializing than talking on this forum is. This is the antithesis of socialization. ALL of it. The game AND this forum.
If LFR haters were REALLY concerned about community and socializing with human beings they’d be telling players to GET OFF THE CHAIR and go hang out with friends for a while in the real world.
The reality is that LFR doesnt affect your game and so you have no argument against it.
Its hated because it steals the ‘honor’ of being a real raider away from some who are obsessed with having it removed to make themselves unique again and the fact is that MOST of the LFR haters are indeed LFR heroes themselves. do I need to even go look at your LFR history?
Well, I just did and for some reason you dont really much of anything anywhere as far as raiding goes on any level. Uldir 8/8. Ok…big whup, thats not enough there for you to be in here bashing LFR players. Sorry.
Go play YOUR game and leave everyone else alone to play theirs.
Pretty simple concept.
And friend, I played the entirety of Legion LFR raids and NOT ONCE did I see a single player AFK.
You all can use that joke line till the cows come home but it aint any more true just because you keep saying it.
It happens FAR less than you all want to admit unless its you doing it yourselves, as a few LFR haters have admitted to in here the last year or so.
nonsense. I know players of a decade and more who have NEVER run in a single ‘real’ raid and they are playing every free moment they can.
Try harder, please
You never experienced it though, so you don’t really know, your assumptions are based on the echo chamber of this forum.
I won’t bother posting at you anymore, because I understand you are just one of those people that can only see their situation.
I do take issue that you assume that all guilds are “toxic” and full of elitists. This hyperbole is echoed on these forums quite a bit. The fact that you might have never guild raided in WoW basically makes your opinion on this matter rather pointless, because you have no experience.
WOW…kettle much there, pot?
And in seeing the BEHAVIOR of LFR haters in here there is NO WAY Id ever subject myself to ‘real’ raiders and their guilds.
And you all give me no choice. WE SEE the elitism posted in these threads week after week. So I dont CARE if you take issue with my seeing the behavior and drawing conclusions from it.
Dont want to be seen as elitists?
stop posting like one in the forums.
And I couldnt care less about your guilds OR your raiding.
THIS is about YOUR incessant crying about LFR. YOU go play YOUR game and leave others to play THEIRS.
Simple concept
I think you’re just very defensive about LFR. You’re assuming that player behavior is static and everybody who doesn’t socialize wouldn’t socialize no matter what. This isn’t the case and the game is demonstrably successful whenever it created solid incentives for socializing. Those incentives have been pushed aside in favor of convenience.
I think you were hoping that you were talking to some elitist mythic raider who wants casuals to be excluded out of raiding. I’m probably more casual than you. But my game doesn’t matter because the topic isn’t about how to tailor the game for what’s best for me, it’s to tailor the game for what’s best for the game. And LFR is not what’s best for the game. It’s unfortunately too damaging to the community and with the existence of modern Normal mode its never been less needed.
Well it’s like I said before we had variety. For me when I started back in Wrath the LFR, Normal, Heroic, and Mythic was just me choosing between which raid I wanted to do. Which at the time rotated between ICC, Vault, Trial of the Crusader, Onyxia’s Lair, and Obsidian Sanctum. Running 1 raid on multiple difficulties is just bland to me.
Well the only other solution in my eyes would be to nuke the ilvls per difficulty and make power gains much more significant. Because within what, 1 expansion we’re almost halfway back to Legion legion ilvls. At this rate we’ll need to do a stat squish after 2 expansions pass.
Well, I don’t think it’s the correct terminology on my end but what I’m referring to is the fact that you don’t really need a specific realm or guild to partake in any instanced content now. Personally I thought the dungeon finder was fine seeing that it’s not centered around organized groups going in and tackling difficult content back in Wrath. But I think the game took it overboard. And like I said you really don’t need to form any bonds or even communicate that much to achieve something like aotc which is where I’d say a good bit of the playerbase works towards. Seeing that Mythic is pretty damn hard.
I can touch on CRZ but I’d be talking about it from a PvP perspective in the open world. And how i think it’s stupid that you can get something like bounty and get a CRZ raid to drop on you out of the blue.
And I think youre obsessed with it.
Of course I would ‘defend’ something that was part of a game I enjoyed playing and had NO bearing on your game whatsoever.
AGAIN…those who WANT to socialize WILL. Those who DONT…WONT
You think you can FORCE it on players? No…you cant. Anymore than a therapist can FORCE a patient to get out of their house more.
Sorry if your precious raiding…or your perception of it…was ruined by making the game more broad to include those who dont WANT to be responsible to a permanent group or such…but the game has evolved and IS more inclusive now and youre just going to have to stop obsessing about OTHER players game style and move on with your own game.
LFR is FINE for those who play it.
YOU go do you and leave them alone to play their own game.
I wonder if they removed gear drops from LFR would people still run it and would they defend it then?
If it is just to “see the content” why is gear dropping from that mode so important?
They nerfed the gear in WoD and the amount of crying that happened on the forums was quite interesting.
I think LFR is bad for the game because it is basically just a free loot mode. It requires no skill, socialization, or accountability from the player. I never seen anything like it in any online or any game for that matter. It is a guarantee win every time you queue for it and the content that is supposed to be an achievement for completed is almost completely invalidated by it’s existence.
I know a lot of posters can’t see past their nose on this, but LFR has been a huge problem for Blizzard. So many of their casual players use it now as their only means of end game content. It really makes it tough to keep people engaged with this single player type content once they beat it.
In the past, this wasn’t an issue. People took way longer to clear raids back then and it kept they subbed for way longer. I can’t tell you how many people I know sub for a month clear LFR and then ghost again. This wasn’t such a big issue back in the day.
Also, the amount of people saying raiding wasn’t accessible and only a few people saw it, is such a huge lie.
Blizzard fed themselves in Cata and LFR was put into the game because that expansion just wasn’t that good and they had to add this because casual players were leaving in droves. It did help some at the time to stave off the bleeding, but I don’t really think in the end it really helped the game at all.
This game too, survived and grew to it’s highest peak of subs without LFR and LFD, so if that proves anything is that we don’t need either of those systems for this game to thrive. It is just a very small and vocal minority of people that have hijacked the discussion on this keep putting forth this idea that LFR is some kind of savoir and that this game couldn’t survive without it, when the past proves this isn’t true.
You are calling me an elitist when you don’t even know me lol. Also, your toxic ad hominem filled posts shouldn’t be viewed as elitist?
Who is the elitist here? You can’t even have a civil discussion without resorting to name calling and attacking people’s character. I really hope you get a ban here, it is long over due.
Everything in game design involves leading player behavior. They provide a level of choice, but its always within a reasonable standard of what players should or shouldnt be able to get away with. MMOs are filled with “if you want X, you gotta do Y”. You throw around the word “forced” because it’s an emotionally charged term, but you’re never forced to do anything. There’s simply rewards and conditions that need to be met to be rewarded. You used to socialize and be rewarded with more content, but now you get rewarded with all content by default, and I’m making the case that this negatively impacted the community.
“to me”
The game as a whole isnt about you. Or me. Or little Johnny.
Its about the player base as a WHOLE. Those who want it easier. Those who want it harder. Those who want ‘community’ and ‘socializing’. Those who want to solo the game and never speak to another player ever.
Take away options, as we’ve seen this company do before, and it loses players. Not a good option for anyone who wants the game to continue, which includes myself, but I am doubtful this game lasts more than a couple more years on its current path after BFA was released.
Im neither here nor there on CRZ. If it helps get into group content faster, then leave it where its at, I guess.
Although I think I did see someone taking advantage of a situation last year that seemed to have something to do with the CRZ thing, but I dont know enough about it to know for certain. I reported them but obviously dont know how it turned out.
would migrating servers entirely and shutting some empty ones down fix the problem with CRZ?
My thing is human nature. People are either nice, polite, etc…or they arent. They either want to work as a team…or they want to trash a run with their solo antics and ruin everyone elses fun.
Personally I dont think CRZ makes an atoms bit of difference where that is concerned.
Ive played on numerous servers and MOST players who do talk are either really nice and helpful…or they are hateful clowns who like to rail on for hours about politics and religion in the chat box.
The rest just dont talk at all, whch is probably best for everyone involved as long as they do the job they said they’d do when they clicked to join the dungeon/raid/whatever.
If they want to return a sense of community back into WoW, they need to make changes that benefit guilds rather than encouraging a lot of solo play and cross-realm activities.
Guilds used to be the backbone of the game, but so many of the changes that’ve been made have progressively made guilds unnecessary. If they want community back, they need to change the game for the better of guilds.
what a dumb statement! sheesh man! Every system in this game effects other parts of the game. LFR contributes to ilevel bloat, it takes developer time to tune it into the easy mode that it is, it takes artist time to design those recolors there are many other factors too. LFR has an impact on the entire game. It is not this system that exists in this bubble.
You arguments are the same regurgitated responses that evert LFR defender has been using on these forums since it was put into the game. They are weak and easily disproved.
Even the person who came up with LFR Ghost Crawler, the lead dev before Ion said in his very own words that he didn’t like how LFR turned out.
Never said it should be. See the thing that I understand is that I can’t speak for anyone but only the opinions that I have. Now I can pretend to talk for everyone. But I’m sure then you’d probably say something along the lines of…
yeah…I got a box full of games that are no longer played that say otherwise.
Dead end games die. Thats just a fact.
Give more options on your car model…sell more cars.
Leave out the AC and automatic trans and you will sell fewer, if any.
No…its NEVER a good idea to lead players in a wide open game world like WoW or ESO thru a maze like a rat. We play THESE games BECAUSE they are wide open…BECAUSE they have tons of options.
I used ‘forced’ friend, because Ive been playing video games since the very first ones were created in the 70s. I know the difference between ‘forced’ game play and freedom.
WoW HAD lots of freedom, and then WoD happened and it seems to have gone down hill ever since. They are determined to keep removing free access to the world, restricting choices (master loot anyone?) that are ‘forcing’ players to play a way they dont WANT to play, especially when they had that freedom just weeks or months before
LFR is fine as it is.
you go play YOUR game and let others play theirs.
IF they want to join your guild they’ll come knocking.
Trust me. YOu DONT want ME in your guild or running raids with you.
While I am a pretty decent player I have absolutely ZERO patience. I’ll bail on you and your group the second I feel Im done.
You think you can force me to change by removing LFR?
No. You wont. I’ll just get bored and stop playing the game instead and take my sub $$$ with me.
That is what we are trying to tell you. The game before LFR was much better community wise. There were tons of casual guilds and when I say tons I mean tons. Players were for sure a lot more polite at least they tried to do so.
I think it is funny how you act like an authority on this subject when you have only been playing since Legion.
How do you know how the game was? I do, I have been playing WoW casually almost without breaks in my sub since beta. I can assure you the game was much more fun and community driven before a lot these QoL systems were put into place to cater to non-MMO gamers.
I have an opinion.
My opinion is ‘let people play how they want to play and leave them be’.
If LFR and more options keeps them subbed and playing, stop thinking about them and go play your game instead.
![:roll_eyes:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/roll_eyes.png?v=6" ":roll_eyes:")