For my guild in raid, We’re going to wipe a few times while the tanks figure out how to do their part. In m+, tanks still have to figure out how to do their part but with strangers you may never get past the 2nd boss.
For real, you can barely even see the gnomes unless they are carrying a sword that breaks into my peripheral vision.
That’s actually not true.
Tanks and healers are usually prioritized last for gear in most organized guilds.
The reality is that most tanks are going to be running in guild groups over pugs.
We pugged a DH that was 9 of our 12 deaths in Ara Kara last night.
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I tank for friends only these days. Even with that the changes to tank sustain make me tank less often. I swapped to main monk for TWW and BrM feels like I’m a whipping boy for 15-20 minutes at a time. My heals are next to useless now, but my healer is usually on top of things, so we don’t have too much problem. I just hate tanking and my healer having to shove heals down my throat to keep me from falling over. Gear will help some though…whenever it decides to drop 
Delves have been a nice change though. I can go in, learn and pull as I like without the expectation to beat timers and “know route” along with whatever other garbage gets spewed in pugs these days.
If I’m in a pug, it’s as dps 
So you want a prot warrior but using a bow instead of a sword and shield
I miss pulling packs with a bow on my warrior
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Ooo someone getting all uppity. Guess I struck a nerve there. Take your own advice about doing your job, let the tank do the pulling unless they specifically ask you to tag a mob. Like you said do your job and move along.
Once again take your own advice. If you feel the run is going slower maybe say “hey can we pull some extra junk, the group can hold it.” Otherwise don’t whine about a tank going too slow for your tastes if you never speak up.
As have I. I’ve seen DPS, healers AND tanks that can’t pull their weight as not being able to pull their own weight isn’t exclusive to one specific role or class. So what exactly is your point? That said, someone going slower than YOU think they should go doesn’t automatically constitute a bad tank. I’m not a mind reader nor is anyone else in here. As said previously, you got an issue, say something. Otherwise if you don’t have the stones to say something, don’t whine later.
My job as a tank is to do the pulling and keep you from getting punched in the face. Your job as the DPS is to do damage and stay out of dumb. Aside from stuff outside of the group’s control, no one has any business pulling aside from me. So if you really want to go there why are you trying to step into the role of tank and tell me how to do my job when you’re not doing yours correctly either?
I’m sorry but this one actually made me laugh. Oh no someone insulted me saying I’m just an LFR pug tank. Oh no, how will I ever survive knowing I’ll never measure up in the eyes of the blowhards that take the game way too seriously and measure their life accomplishments in video game achievements because they have nothing else in their sad little lives.
I find it funny you’re sitting here trying to talk down to me when by your own logic I’ve accomplished more on this singular toon than you ever have in this game. Where’s your pvp achievements? Where’s your mythic keystones? Where’s your own raids cleared be it LFR or mythic+? Why hide behind a level 10 toon if you’re this big accomplished important person you expect me to shudder being in the presence of? Also you only see what I allow you to see on my profile nor do you know the full scope of my activity in game. The more you speak the more you demonstrate why there is a tank shortage in certain content. If being on these sup3r l33t r@1d t3@ms mean that I have to deal with people like yourself, I’ll pass thank you. Far too much stuff I could do running with friends or other games to play. I play this because I enjoy wow, not because I make it a second job like you clearly do.
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I just restated what you said. So I guess I’m the one who struck a nerve. lol
I don’t have to whine about LFR tanks, I don’t play with them in the first place. 
Not reading anything after this since you agree.
Your job as a tank is to keep a steady enough flow of adds that the group can safely down them while you are able to hold aggro. Your job is to gauge how much the dps can dps while not overwhelming the healer. If you fail to pull enough then the dps or healer has to pull for you.
I’m not reading the rambling beyond this. You shouldn’t laugh. Go do some real content and get back to me.
DPS that have never kicked an important cast in their life will not hesitate to tear into a tank that doesn’t do a picture perfect route.
Tanks not wanting to pug M+ has nothing to do with any recent balance changes.
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More dps means shorter phases and less healing required, generally.
If your Tank is already surviving its not as efficient to get slightly more tanky as it is to kill the boss before it becomes threatening.
However, that was the old days before everyone could gear up via m+, crafting, boes, delves before attending raid.
yeah i made a tank, and after running norms and heroics with the gen public the past 2 weeks im not touching a pug for keys lol
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yep. if you heal or tank you know how valuable good dps are.
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Starting to think Delves are the fix for the Tank/Healer shortage
More like the tank observed the group dps and the healer in action and decided this was all the healer could handle. But when dps decides to pull extra packs, they haven’t taken that into consideration. It’s a control issue, an “I’m in charge here, and I’ll show you uppity tanks who is boss.” No team work required.
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Are we back in third grade where copying someone is considered some kind of valid comeback now? Moving on.
Your profile says otherwise but okay. Two things can be true at once where people who don’t have an issue can respect something happening with someone else. But I suppose that’s too advanced for you.
So we both agree bad players aren’t exclusive to tanks and can be bad DPS or bad healers as well. What was the point in bringing that up?
You say that first bit I highlighted in bold yet contradict yourself in that last sentence and I’m supposed to take you seriously why? If it’s my job to asses how much I believe I and the group can handle and pull accordingly, why are you pulling extra stuff that could wipe the group? If it’s my job to do the pulling as you say, why are you overstepping and going against me if it’s my assessment the group can’t handle more than that? If I’m only pulling 5 of the 10 mobs in a room at once, did you stop to think there may be a reason for that and gasp actually ask about it? If you feel you can handle more, why are you not speaking up and saying “hey we can handle more” then let me pull accordingly?
It never ceases to amaze me at how DPS like yourself think they know all. If it’s my job as you claim to do the pulling according to ability of the group, then let me do the pulling according to what I believe you can handle. If I believe you can only handle so much but you believe you can do more, then have enough of a spine to speak up and say something instead of trying to wipe the group by pulling extra junk.
Quit hiding behind a level 10 with no accomplishments before you demand anything from me. Let’s see your own “real content” before you try to look down your nose at me like the stereotypical neckbeard.
THIS. ALL OF THIS. People want to run their mouths about how it’s my job as a tank to pull stuff according to what I believe the group can handle. Yet want to turn around and pull extra stuff instead of trusting my judgement or speaking up. Then they want to turn around and wonder why there is a tank shortage.
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I’d prefer a Tinker in a mech using short ranged weapons and energy shields.
What does it say?
I didn’t contradict myself. If a dps or healer has to pull for you then it’s very likely you’re failing to do your job. There are a lot of tanks who shouldn’t be playing that role.
I feel like it’s a little more like bourgeoisie behavior of tanks tends to rub people the wrong way on the whole. But again, the artificial inflated time investment and tedium inherent to the game mode’s design is what causes people to be impatient, not communicate and be toxic over time. It’s only getting worse.
All of this content at any level where you want to be progressing and pushing numbers is NOT, I repeat, NOT designed around PUG-ing. Higher end raid content and dungeon content is meant to be run with people being in step and communication with each other. I mentioned this in another thread, but you people don’t understand. This content is an E-Sport. It’s designed with that aspect of things in mind. That’s why the bulk of the player base has such an issue with it. And since people don’t communicate in this game anymore, the issues inherent to the system are exacerbated that much more over time. There’s also the issue of a language barrier with a bunch of different regions being thrown together in the server pools.