It was a nice speech…just the sort of thing a manipulative and selfish tyrant would use to motivate her minions – err people…and keep their spirits strong. Didn’t a guy from Germany do this kind of thing once upon a time…?
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“Sylvanas, the cold and rotting (…)”
5 seconds in and they’re already lying.
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Waiting for a book to tell us that Tyrande is actually being mind controlled by the Sporregar and her entire story arc gets thrown away as she becomes the Spore Queen who unleashes fungal doom on the world.
Who are you going to believe, the latest book, or 15 years of lore?
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I will never forget. Never.
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For all her supposed bluster, Sylvanas
- was willing to let innocent forsaken (or at least not yet proven guilty) be used as test subject for her blight.
- was willing to let the Forsaken to their own devices if not for the fact she would end up in WoW hell.
- she was willing to kill her own sister and nephews(collateral damage)
and inflict on them the curse of undead just because she was lonely and Vereesa actually made her feel something positive. - She was willing to blackmail the blood elves into giving her aid.
- she let Nathanos kill high elves for a damn registry of his name.
Lastly, Edge of Night was apperently release in Sept 2011, these voice files were for brewfest 2011 which was in October, it was clear Sylvanas’ was lying to everyone like she always did.
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Those inner thoughts you cite include things like her thinking how “she would have saved them [the Forsaken]” through her actions in Stormheim. Or that she had come to respect both Varian and Vol’jin, and regretted their deaths. And many other examples of her inner thoughts that don’t seem at all compatible with the cartoon villain she has become.
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Save them from what exactly? And more importantly, did the forsaken even want to be saved. I have killed quite a few forsaken who seems relieved to actually die by my hands.
Because maybe they served her own ends? From the looks of it Sylvanas was always plotting to destroy Stormwind. Honestly, we are two weeks away from Blizzcon and I expect a new pre-expansion book will release. We will all find out exactly what Sylvanas real thoughts are soon enough.
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Saved them from extinction, per her thoughts. And the point is that, in her own mind, she was behaving altruistically.
There are many more instances. In Silverpine, for one, she gives you a quest to find and return the insignia of her fallen soldiers so that they will not be forgotten.
That’s beside the point. This thread is about the aspects of Sylvanas’ previous portrayals that are inconsistent with the cartoonish villain she has been morphed into.
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A lot has happened to her and her people since then that have affected her views, characters are not static in perspective and frozen in time like that
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Again, easily falls under the she pities them. And while she thinks she is saving them from extinction she was gonna end up causing them greater pain in the long run with her attempt at saving them.
She has ALWAYS had an evil streak. To the point Arthas escaped because she wanted to make him suffer as oppose to just killing him then and there.
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I write Sylvanas pretty well. They could hire me.
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A response from the late great Samariyu.
It reads:
"Of course. Characters grow. Now please show me where Sylvanas grew from former Ranger General who cares to Banshee who doesn’t.
The joke here is we aren’t shown that supposed growth. She changes from caring to not caring without any recognizable catalyst or explanation. Aside from a cycling in writers, of course."
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And THAT… is the biggest problem with this game, and it’s portrayal of Sylvanas as well as the lore in general. They will change whatever narrative points came before retroactively to force a character to fit the narrative they wish, rather than actually evolving the character they will change whatever necessary.
Because Sylvanas still has loyalists, Blizzard writing as it is now could leave 50 clues that she has a bigger plan in mind and isn’t all evil as a dangling carrot, but then at the end just go “Nah lol she is playing you too. She is gonna be a boss in the next expansion anyway!”
The lore and story mean absolutely nothing when you open the door to changing a character on the fly just cause you want to force them into a role they otherwise wouldn’t be in given how they were written before.
I mean remember Garrosh? They wrote a story where he was against genocide and dropped someone off a cliff because they did it.
Garrosh did this as Warchief when Krom’Gar bombed a Nightelf home and area killing many.
Garrosh: “What have you done Krom’Gar?”
Krom’Gar: ( I was carrying out your command )
Garrosh: “My command?!” Was my command to murder hundreds of innocents, Krom’Gar? Am I a murderer Krom’Gar? I sent you into Stonetalon Mountains with an army. Your orders were to secure this land for the Horde!
Instead, you laid waste to the land, murdered innocents, children even.
I spent a very long time in Northrend Krom’Gar. I learned much about the Horde in that time. A wise old war hero told me something that I would carry with me
forever. “Honor”, Krom’Gar, “No matter how dire the battle, never forsake it.”. Overlord Krom’Gar, you’re a disgrace to the Horde. You’ve brought shame to us as a people! By my right as Warchief, I hereby relieve you of duty."
Garrosh picks him up by the throat and walks him to the ledge
Garrosh: “YOU ARE DISMISSED!”
Drops him.
Yeah… remember THAT? How Blizzard decided to take that guy and go "Oh yeah let’s have him bomb Theramore.
Blizzard has gotten scarily comfortable with changing stuff on the fly if it means they can vilify someone at a position of power in The Horde, and the only way they seem to want to write the Horde as ‘honorable’ or ‘competent’ anymore, is when they are acting more like ‘The Alliance’. Otherwise whatever character development a character got before is thrown out the window and they are turned unhinged, crazy and easily triggered, and their ideals are made a 180 (even if it’s just a few months apart).
It’s disgusting and tiresome at this point that Blizzard lacks such originality to flesh out a character, on the Horde particularly, they will 180 them and expect people to eat it up as opposed to actually doing something original or creative.
First it was Garrosh, now it’s Sylvanas. She goes from yelling at Saurfang in a PERSONAL moment “This Horde is worth saving. Anyone who disagrees does not deserve to stand among us.” Heck BLIZZARD EVEN PROMOTED HER BY THAT QUOTE
And now for this new cinematic she goes “The Horde is nothing! You are ALL Nothing. I only sorta pitied the Forsaken…”
It’s sickening. It essentially means we can’t trust anything they do when it comes to a Horde that isn’t kowtowing to the Alliance in some way, shape or form.
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Pretty sure that Afrasibi has indicated in interviews that Stonetalon Garrosh was a bit of a mistake. Initially they had planned a redemptive arc for Garrosh, then changed plans, but Afrasibi was out of the loop and put in the Stonetalon quests.
All of which just shows how often they change plans. They may well have planned a heroic Sylvanas at one point, and then chopped and changed to what we got. Sometime they make these changes relatively seamlessly and sometimes not so much.
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This is why I’ve developed a real apathy towards the characters in this game: They’ve stopped being characters that follow understandable through-lines, and have been turned into dispensaries that vomit out whatever tripe the writers need them to at the moment.
How can I be expected to care about a character when literally any of their thoughts, actions and motivations are liable to be backtracked on, or even completeley reversed, at any given moment?
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Meh … I’m feeling pretty validated right now lol! The Sylvie that we saw in 8.2.5 is the very same Sylvie I’ve been seeing for 9 years (and the apparent Sylvie I was completely wrong about because I didn’t read between the lines enough to really “get her”). Don’t even feel like a dick saying it … don’t take any real joy in it beyond that inital validation … just feeling the relief that the bandaid I’ve been expecting to get ripped off since 8.0 (hell, since 7.0 Stormheim) finally got ripped off.
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Simple, War Crimes:
She should have know. The pain she had felt at first, when she dared foolishly permit herself to hope for something different from what she had now, to feel something for another…to feel love again…it had been a warning. A warning that she was no longer made for feelings such as hope, or love, or trust, or joy.
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pretty much but sylvanas fans just want to stick there fingers in there ears and not listen
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Sylvanas is always speaking for herself.
She projects her hate and just assumes that everyone else feels the same way, because, why wouldn’t they.
When George Lucas legitimately writes a better political drama than you you’ve done something wrong.
This really would have been a way better way to start the war. A Casus Belli of “They tried to assassinate the Warchief” is so much stronger than “Anduin’s grand children might want war”.
They could play up that the average grunt didn’t know about what she was doing in Stormheim. They just know she was attacked while lending aid to the champion to retrieve the Aegis. We the players would know the truth. Make up some reason why the Horde PC doesn’t oust her (Maybe they legitimately believe she was there to “save” her Forsaken).
Bam! Actually morally grey conflict. Can still have the big reveal at the end that “THE HORDE IS NOTHING!” and everything. The Horde as a whole just looks less pants on head stupid when it is all over.
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