We’re not talking about warmode, we’re talking about battle grounds.
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But the leveling brackets aren’t being segregated due to gear. They are segregated due to earning xp or not.
So we have to keep it fair, and segregate people the same way. Not a new system that doesn’t apply to the conversation.
But just like a twink in a bracket going up against an undergeared player, we both know this isn’t about “fair”.
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You were saying?
See, you’re playing dumb for the sake of being dumb. I’m literally utilizing the philosophy behind the arguments ive seen against twinking on these forums and taking them to their next logical step.
Yes, now twinks are being segregated based on xpon or xpoff. This is because blizz is $** lazy and has never been able to balance pvp in a game driven by gear.
leveling brackets had gear caps. There is a finite amount of gear that twinks could get that was mathematically the best for their level and that was it. Essentially twinks are ilvl 400 as a 29 while a 29 in heirloom is an ilvl300.
There is nothing stopping a player with xpon with getting that same gear. It’ll actually be easier to get it than trying to catch up to that ilvl 400 player. To make it even worse because of the way gear works now, the best players at 120 are going to be the ones with titanforged gear.
The absolute irony in all this crap is that the 120 bracket is fueled by a gear imbalance with a cap that continually widens the longer the expansion is out. It’s why they give new players so many catch up mechanics to start them out higher than the game is balanced when they reach the cap at 120. The reason people don’t complain at 120 is because they have no other choice but to gear up as there is nothing left to do.
and what makes it ironic is that leveling brackets have mathematical gear caps, which means a leveler has a better chance of catching up with a twink than they do a lvl 120 pvper who pvps every single day.
but because the game and players are obsessed with newer and newer content, they don’t take the time to see that pvping at lower levels would probably be more balanced and fair, and easier to gear up for if everyone just picked a lvl like 69 or 79 to pvp at.
But no, players want that imbalance in pvp. This is WHY rbgs are so popular in any kind of multiplayer game. They want to lord their 400+ ilvl over that new player, they just don’t want it to happen to them until they’re ready to be the one to do it.
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I think there is one huge aspect you are missing. If you are undergeared for a leveling bracket, you will always be undergeared as you level.
If you are undergeared at 120, you will get gear.
One system you are kept perpetually undergeared, the other you have a way to get gear.
I mean, you can’t fault people for not wanting to play broken content. And yes, a lot of low level content (bot pve and pvp) is broken.
A lot of classes dont get their abilities to actually be their spec till later levels. I can’t imagine that people want to just get through that time period and get to where there is even a hint of balance attempted.
Blizzard has no real reason to focus on the lower level balancing. And they shouldn’t. The general playerbase doesn’t want to be stuck at lower levels. They want to get to actual challenging things where PVE/PVP matters to people other than a small niche audience.
You didn’t even read my post if you’re stating this. There are mathematical caps easier to achieve at lower brackets than at 120. 120 you are always grinding ilvls. There’s always an ilvl cap at lower levels. current content is inherently balanced as its constantly sharting out more and more ilvls. You’re arguing against twinking in spite of your own position.
I agree that people want to just skate through lower level content and blizzard shouldnt be balancing lower level content, but this decision was just that, “balancing”. Why the hell do people even care about twinks if they just want to level in the first place? go do pve instead of pvp.
If twinking is a small niche audience, then why even segregate twinks/xpoff players?
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PVP in every bracket in the whole game isn’t fair. I’ve queued many bgs at 120 and gotten camped more at gy’s than I ever have while bging in a leveling bracket. Not sure what you’re going on about.
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Twinking is fun for a little while and then it gets old since not much skill involved.
Hey Pete. This is the point I’ve been trying to make. RBG’s revolve around huge gear and skill discrepancies. It’s why people like to play in rbgs. You get the opportunity roflstomp another team whereas in competitive circles its always a challenge.
I don’t even have a twink right now (though i planned on a 59 rogue, rip), but imo the blatant exclusion of a section of the player base is absurd to me with respect to rbgs.
Someone pointed out that the exclusion is based on “xpon” or “xpoff” which it mechanically is, but the reasoning is due to the devs not being able to or unwilling to balance gear at lower levels.
Instead of segregating twinks they should just remove the xpoff option all together.
Pretty much sums it up nicely. This is exactly the reason the “Experience off” queue was separated again. Because the truth is, as someone who created twinks before, I did it so I could get into one of those games to smash other less geared players.
Eventually I hung it up, it’s boring and to be honest it really isn’t all that fun or cool to graveyard f… another team so I could get my jollies off.
There was never enough twinks willing to use the queue to fight other twinks before, and I guess that’s the case this go around, now that it’s been reverted back to how it was.
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Why remove the exp off option? The problem was never that, it was the fact that the queue for exp off was never used by players who twinked.
It had nothing to do with wanting a challenging fight against other players as geared as you if that were the case then the damn queue would have been fine, but it never was it was always a long wait to get into a game that was over before it even started.
No, what seemed to be on the agenda of most was getting into these normal games where you would end up with one side “with a dominate twink” graveyard camping stupid numbers before most people quit.
Mean while new player get cycled in as the frustrated players leave. It wasn’t fun for any one but the people running around racking up the numbers.
This is false. It is literally impossible for a leveler to catch up to the proverbial twink in your example, because he will level out of the bracket before he can gather all that gear. In the next bracket, he will have to begin again as the bar is set higher.
This is the very principle twinks have always abused. You claim to be putting in more effort in getting gear, but the actual truth of it is you are gearing by completely different rules and exploiting the system. The more “work” the regular slob puts in, the faster his gear becomes obsolete.
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People that aren’t a part of the way you pvp don’t want to pvp your way. Time to nut up and deal with the fact that people don’t think the same way you do and don’t want to spend the time or money to do that.
My take is that Blizzard decided that a lot of their pvp content wasn’t being consumed by a greater majority of players who don’t twink, due to bad experiences of previously doing said content and being slaughtered by players who do twink. They have the data, they have the numbers, we can only speculate. But considering that the game is entertainment, and then comparing it to an amusement park, Blizzard saw rides and attractions not being made use of. They’re buisness model relies on players faces being in front of their screens as much as possible. Having just spent resources to enhance a couple of the maps and re-launch Wintergrasp, you can see why they’d want more than just a few twinks actively engaged in it.
You had your time in the sun. We all have, in some ways.
Don’t dwell on it.
Time kills games, just like everything else.
But it also heals wounds. Not as quickly as stitches and antibiotics, but it gets there eventually.
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Thanks @Smashies for your topic, and your work to keep it civil. I’m also disappointed at the limitation of your preferred play style.
Though I’m not in to PvP, your topic made me realize a PVE twink may be what I am looking for in Wow. It may actually be what a lot of people want but don’t realize.
I don’t like the constant gear treadmill and find that the most I enjoy the game tends to be at the end of the expansion. That is when the goals seem to be the most concrete and obtainable, and turning experience off is a way of simulating that.
This “religious objection” to twinking everyone seems to have is ridiculous. It’s just gearing your character and turning experience off. It’s not eating children or something.
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Can’t twinks absolutely demolish a normally leveling player? Mixing the brackets together is kind of crazy if there’s no stat templates. I remember back in the day I would twink up a char and then turn on XP, then absolutely wreck levelers in BGs while I leveled up.
Can my 119 at least hold his own in WPVP against 120s? ( If i ever see any ) since he’s now useless for instanced pvp.
Im not going to level to 120 since the content is bleh and im hoping bliz will revert this mistake.
No, we’re talking about segregation based on playstyle. You were the one that brought it up, in fact.
It does seem that way sometimes, doesn’t it.
In Ye Good Old Days there was this thing called PvP gear. If you did whatever was required to obtain it (and it was often quite expensive in various ways and took a fair bit of effort to obtain) it gave you an advantage while engaged in PvP - including battlegrounds. People even looked down on those who weren’t wearing PvP gear while doing PvP because they were considered noobs. Nobody in their right mind (or otherwise) suggested segregating those wearing PvP gear away from those who didn’t because ultimately, it was a choice.
In a way, twinking is the same. If you are the sort of player who enjoys collecting perfect gear to help you survive and do well in battlegrounds, then this new move won’t be such a big deal.
The only difference here is the experience lockoff. Some people take this form of twinking to extremes and it can give them a fairly massive advantage. I saw a toon recently in a bg, a level 119 with a Neck at level 32 I think and gear at around 304. It was like a wrecking ball. I can only assume that player enjoys destroying characters not in the same league and possibly in order to increase their Prestige level. That sort of thing will have a very limited shelf life now because if you are doing it for those reasons you won’t find it as easy, and reactivating experience for quicker runs will eventually drop you into the next bracket.