More people would play the spec if it wasn’t such a disaster. CDR is fun but 1.5 minute cooldowns becoming 15 second Cds is just plain stupid. AR being a maintenance buff instead of a damage cooldown is plain stupid. Crackshot being so oppressive over the entire capstone area is garbage. Reliance on re-entering stealth is restricting and feels bad.
Burn the entire thing to the ground and start over honestly.
Care to elaborate on why CDR is stupid? It’s all relative, the cooldowns could be 10 minutes and they would double restless blades. It doesnt matter. They could be 45 seconds and half restless blades CDR. The whole point of the spec is that its an uptime spec that you need to keep running in order to output.
I hope you don’t mean you want every spec to be a static cd class, because 1. Outlaw isn’t the only CDR spec, and 2. That would not be good to homogenize the gameplay that far since one of the best parts about wow is the insane class diversity.
Agreed.
The current design of the spec is lost.
Sub is still in good shape as the specs just needs minor things cleaned up and some tuning. Assassination and Outlaw needs more work beyond number tuning as the mechanics needs better flow.
To be honest Assassination’s main issue is that one of the hero specs deathstalker really makes it clunky to interact with. And the the other hero spec fatebound runs counter to how Assassination plays because it does not have the CP generation to make coin flips work that well.
Wow, I can tell you haunt the class Discord.
But it has a CD.
Use it to fill seven combo points when GS is on CD?
I still find using Shiv to fill Combo points very useful, but then again I prefer KiR than Hillbilly Subtlety like Riki over there.
bro are u seriously trying to prove you dont play outlaw? Shiv only gives full cp from AP as assa 
Ill say it again, but these forums are absolutely depressing. It’s blatantly clear that most people here dont play current outlaw or havent even played in DF.
I mean this guy legitimately just said shiv gives full CP as outlaw like bro what is that
Straight up confirmed wholesale that you are legit just lying on the forums. And idk why u keep mentioning hillbilly sub lol. Idek what that means, but since we both play kir idk what ur on about.
Also, another easy one liner to prove you dont know how the spec works. Using Ghostly’s off gcd combo points allows you to snipe a ER combo point so you can do a double BtE without an ace proc.
Please, refrain from commenting and leaving feedback on the spec you’re clearly outing yourself as having never played recently or during DF.
Yea, I never said that.
Yea, you don’t play KiR. You wouldn’t be this arrogant to play an inferior DPS build.
Again, you just don’t either read what’s said or you’re so ingrained with how people should play Hillbilly Sub that you just insult everyone that doesn’t think like you.
Am I actually being trolled or what is this?
My main is h ttps://raider.io/characters/us/sargeras/M%C3%B0ga, you can see I’ve never played a key without KiR because I’m not insane. I can see your profile is a 489 outlaw, so I’ll chalk it up to legitimate trolling.
You can’t even quote the right remark without literally foaming from the mouth…
Sorry I cant quote it properly since I dont know how to use the forum’s formatting properly, but you literally said “Use it to fill seven combo points when GS is on CD?” in reply to me saying shiv is useless besides its dispel as outlaw.
Use it to fill seven combo points when GS is on CD?
What else is there to say? You outright admitted to not knowing how the spec functions and lied to prove a point.
And then you revert to attempting to insult me rather than replying to the point. But we all know you didn’t because you don’t want to admit you havent played outlaw in DF and dont know how the spec works.
If your main rogue is anything more than the remix 486 character youre posting on, please share, but since I know it’s not maybe you should stop trying to pretend you know what youre talking abt.
You can see their alts on check-pvp so they don’t really play the game and their achievements are not character specific so at this point you’re basically arguing with a wall.
Fill, not full. Shiv can help you cap seven combo points. I never said it gave you full combo points.
All you do is insult people.
Then you and Bonez can go skulk back to Ravenholdt with the other ten people who like Crackshot spam and pretend it’s some cerebral, complicated spec when its just mindless BtE spam in a Vanish Window.
Saying that is basically the same thing as saying “lol blade flurry” on aoe. It’s so easy that I could give you my character for a month and you’d still be doing half of my damage at the end of that time. Like everybody else your coping excuse would turn to RTB because you dont understand the spec.
You don’t even grasp why non crackshot builds aren’t and wont be viable so that discussion is completely pointless. I’ll give you a hint, the answer isn’t because of damage.
Either way, you’re not playing the game at a level where it matters anyways so why are you trying to ruin specs just for the sake of ruining them? Makes me happy that no Blizzard dev reads these class forums.
They do read these forums which is why more changes lately are happening far more than the discord. Feedback matters more from everywhere really.
The discords were their outlets due to theorycraft community for DF, but they have turned off that spigot for TWW.
Thus what they are realizing is that for balanced game design approach they need feedback from everywhere.
I am not against sublaw or Crackshot builds as I do find it fun. But choking out all other build combinations and the mistakes they made with the spec hurt it in the long run.
As you have pointed out the RNG of the second Sinister Strike being so low does more to throttle the spec than RTB RNG. But right now without the tier set bonus Outlaw has too much to overcome in terms of RNG.
Just my two cents to keep this discussion balanced.
Blizzard seems to be doing fine on their own on that front.
So, we can blame Ravenholdt for the Rogue Hero Talent Trees, the overloaded cap stone talent that is Crackshot, and the mindless APM spam that has turned Outlaw into an unpopular spec.
Good to know.
Yep you’re right the Discord brought Crackshot into existence and not Realz. If you want non CS builds to be viable, you literally need to undo all of the energy nerfs that happened over the course Dragonflight because the spec, since the rework, has been dependent on you having the highest possible uptime on Adrenaline Rush.
Since you can’t grasp why CS is so dominant, GSW literally cannot produce the same amount of CDR vs Ace resets required to stay in ADR because the spec is extremely crippled outside of it. You could nerf CS down to 20% Dispatch and it would still be better than non CS builds.
You’re also just spewing nonsense because from Day 1 there’s basically been absolutely nobody defending the awful hero talents and you’re delusional if you think otherwise.
Since you want to talk about APM it’s very clear that not only did you not play Outlaw at all this expansion even before the rework and you didn’t play in it Shadowlands either when guess what, it was still the highest apm spec in the game. Probably the most fun build the spec ever even had was Kyrian Shadowdust which pushing 90-100 apm because Vanish would drop your cds by 30s though people just like you cried that the spec was simply too hard to play.
You do not understand the problems with the spec let alone basic fundamentals so I don’t even know why this conversation is still continuing.
I didn’t say it was too hard to play. It was just mindless. There’s a difference.
I’m sure there’s a few of you in Ravenholdt excited that Fatebound doesn’t interrupt your APM palpitations.
Kind of weird since, if Blizzard isn’t listening to these forums, and the spec continues to plummet in both effectiveness and in popularity; why should anyone listen to your diagnosis since you want the status quo?
‘The basic fundamentals’. So pretentious.
Please just stop embarrassing yourself. Do you even understand why nobody likes Trickster let alone the issues with it? Are you even capable of realizing that even talenting into Coup is a literal dps loss? Can you understand why a full GCD lock and warrior charge on a proc is even an issue? How about the problems with Killing Sprees entire existence, being forced to use it on a 20s CD, completely animation locking yourself, and just laying on the floor dead if you want to play Trickster in an actual key? Actually I don’t even know why I brought up keys because you can’t even finish M0s. You can’t even read what I wrote in my previous post and see why Trickster is an issue.
For the record while we’re here, Blizzard isn’t listening to people period if it wasn’t obvious by our beta thread and mages getting reworked 37 times since alpha and our Dev is seemingly no longer working on our class to begin with.
I really don’t understand you people and wanting to die on the hill of being so unbelievably wrong but you have to have the last word I guess.
I did. That’s why I mentioned Fatebound and not Trickster.
You so desperately want to cling to what is universally understood as the unhealthiest playstyle in the game, what drives away new rogues/players, and you constantly belittle anyone about it because they’re not huffing the obscurantism hard enough.
More and more people want change. Decent change. Meaningful change. This pseudo-Subtlety disease has got to be reigned in.
Don’t even try to pull that at all. You’re literally directly referencing Trickster with your Fatebound comment unless you magically think we can spec into Deathstalker somehow. You literally don’t even play the spec in any content other than world content nor do you even understand what you’re asking for. I don’t even care for Crackshot for what it’s worth but guess what? Outlaw is a constantly changing spec. The difference is you cannot even grasp why things are the way they are currently. Going to be honest, I really didn’t want to sit here and babysit you all night long but if you want to keep trying to embarrass yourself then feel free.
I literally even wrote a post on how to fix this spec so you can go ahead and read that and try and tell me how I’m simping for Crackshot