Thanks to Laika, the DH who linked this in the beta conversation.
Here is a recent conversation between some of the big streamers in the community regarding the state of rogues going into TWW. If you’d like to see the gist, start at the 1:42 mark and listen.
I’ll start by prefacing this with the fact that we shouldn’t be blaming singular devs for the effort and decisions of Blizz overhead on this. It seems like there was, and has been for a time, an explicit choice to do a rotation of big changes for classes, and we seem to have pulled the trigger on the wrong chamber on this one.
RealZ was supposedly promoted mid cycle and is no longer developing for the class. Full stop, people need to stop blaming him singularly for the issues. Apparently this is a choice on the management side on resource allocation, and we were both left without a dedicated dev and were given lowest priority due to the 10.3 “rework” they did.
So what does this mean going forward?
Well, put simply, we are SoL.
According to the conversation, they’ve got a “code lock” coming up, where abilities and their respective tooltips essentially get locked down in preparation for the release, and they don’t modify those things until bigger patches ie: x.x.5 or x.1+.
So, my understanding is that, no matter how much noise we make from here, the only thing we can hope for is some 11.0.5 patch that fixes these issues, if we are lucky enough that they fill the role fast enough.
So, either strap in or jump ship to a new class, it’s about to be a bumpy and miserable patch for Rogues.
During very limited Subtlety testing in Beta, at level 80 with 4 set and the rest pvp gear stacking Mastery, Vers then Crit, with damage increase food, potion, and flask, the average damage from Eviscerate and Shadow Tech feels a bit too close to average FV damage as Retribution on live now(at level 70). Some folks were claiming to have the occasional 2million crit, and I will do more testing, but I’m just not seeing it yet.
Maybe my talents are incorrect, maybe I’m just trash at playing Subtlety, but Im not impressed.
Assassination is behind Sub but better off than Outlaw in terms of design.
That is a number tuning issue because despite the mid expansion CC changes in DF Rogues eat a DPS penalty for CC that is no longer the same (duration of Blind and KS are lessened).
Well, I was really hoping for something for Rogues before launch, but the “code lock” makes sense. To be honest, I don’t need to play World of Warcraft right now. Maybe this is a sign from God in that, I am moving to Thailand in early to mid 2026, and I need all the time and money I can save toward that effort. It’s not easy moving to another country. Not that $15 a month would kill me. But, the time sink would most certainly distract me. I cancelled my account about 10 days in, which was 18 or so days ago when I realized that Outlaw was under performing. And then, pre-patch launch, revealed the ugly truth about Outlaw. Reading this “code lock” comment all but cements my decision. Subscription runs out on the 3rd of Aug. It’s been super annoying having to babysit Battle.net Rogue forums / postings and mmo-champion looking for “rogue buffs.” lol. Oh, well. And yes, I know that no one cares when someone quits, I also never cared to read those comments either. I will just cast vanish in real life and slip back into the shadows.
It’s called code freeze, and it’s rather unfortunate the state were left in. Luckily they recently undid ONE of MANY objectively bad changes (aka. gameplay rather than dmg) in the form of giving us 5cp ace procs back. We’re still far from ok, kir might be back to viable now, but no acro, tierset, haste requirement, Killing Spree (seriously, this must be a troll ability), and coup lockouts.
What is this gossip thread? I thought this would be something constructive…
I already rolled off after Trickster swap from Feint. They want me to press Ghostly Strike every 90 seconds (irregular), but rally to change from multiple charges on Feint? …
You certainly can blame a single dev.
Every. Single. Dev.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy Shadow Dance is no longer class design rot. But virtually every other talent that touches the “stealth in combat” loop was unaltered.
Outlaw Rogue needs yet another overhaul/redesign because it seems to be in shambles. Worst class to level too by far.
(I am not watching the video linked in OP–if there’s important context, there should be a summary. The gossip portion was pointed at the OP for hehe xd referring to whatever streamerlink was talking about, instead of summarizing their thoughts, and then pivoting to something about devs… the thread is hilarious, the OP tragic.)
Yup. The whole thing is too restrictive. It’s looking like it’s killed off KiR because of it. At least for now anyway but as I’ve said before I’m not exactly expecting hero talents to fix much.
The devs took a beating for this b/c Druid cyclone was the only cc that wasn’t reduced or nerfed at all in pvp this expac. Everyone else got hit.
Meanwhile, in SL when rogue/mage was considered ‘unkillable cc monsters’ I was dusting them in 30s or less on my dk for an easy stroll to duelist post 2k. Thank you Abom. My point with that is if you have equal or slightly less cc you can win and easily if you understand when you use it and what you have to do coming off it. If you’re peeling you almost have to go off of the peels or you waste cc. There are few things as satisfying as killing a 2k+ rogue in their own open bomb. Sure as hell beats a legendary item, maybe not Green Fire at tier though. On the flipside executing a perfect cc chain and killing is super satisfying on my rogue.
The drooling idiots that are part of the carry squad in arena forums (you know some of these people as you come over there sometimes) will insist there is not and never has been a counter to rogue which is untrue.
Tuning around stupid people or the top 0.01% is asinine. I know you’re not suggesting either I’m just making a blanket statement b/c that’s where a lot of the tuning issues come from.
I’m confused, its been locked in in every build, and still would’ve been even in its short term cringe nerfed state. I can only assume you pvp where its still nerfed and sucks to use.
Either way, crackshot+ace is definitely one of the driving factors into why outlaw is so fun. There are a lot of others, but crackshot+ace is a big one for a lot of people. Spamming bte while watching CPs for procs is unrivaled
