The Spelladin - new Retribution meta for Classic

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399

hence why I never bothered to DPS on Heigan due to the aoe mana burn - I would simply put on my healing set and stand with the casters on the platform - he chose to dps on heigan to push the envelope as you said for stalagg and feugen

TLDR - I don’t try to DPS myself on Heigan nor do I advocate any other Paladins trying to DPS on Heigan as it’s too much of an uphill battle - similarly Paladins cannot DPS KT phase 2 or 3 due to Mana Detonation

so yet again, this is why you never look at total raid parses

#ContextCritsYouRightBackInTheFace

400

lolspellingbee

401

here’s some more #Context for you broheim…

MourtaghToday at 1:28 PM
@Theloras Your Strat holywater stacks with spellpower?
Cause ours doesnt :<

ThelorasToday at 1:28 PM
100% scaling dude

MourtaghToday at 1:28 PM
oh my god

Hammer [Dexterbravo]Today at 1:28 PM
XD

CromerToday at 1:28 PM
damn

MourtaghToday at 1:28 PM
Mine is flat boring 500 dude

Hammer [Dexterbravo]Today at 1:29 PM
:angry:

MourtaghToday at 1:29 PM
Dude if i could have scaling holy water, working wrath of cenarius

HolyfrogToday at 1:29 PM
Oh, so your DPS could have been even more insane

MourtaghToday at 1:29 PM
and a damn working pummeler on the third charge…

HolyfrogToday at 1:29 PM
Like, all the strongest stuff doesnt work on your server and yet your DPS is through the roof :joy:

MourtaghToday at 1:29 PM
Yep

Hammer [Dexterbravo]Today at 1:29 PM
its scaling 100% in the beta
according to wow.tools

MourtaghToday at 1:29 PM
The water?
Ill report the damn bug right now lets go

and before you try to say that Holy Water shouldn’t scale at 100%, let me stop you ahead of time…


The Holy Priest with minimal spell damage on his gear was able to get the Holy Water to hit for 654 and 657 on the undead skeleton spawn adds during Baron Rivendare boss fight.
http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=16248

Patch 1.9. Holy Water hits for 683.

Roughly estimated from his other spell hits he has 170-205 spell damage, so if the Holy Water coefficient has the default 42.8% coefficient the damage can be between 510 and 649, doesnt fit.
With 100% coefficient the damage will be somewhere between 608 and 767, it fits.

Protection Paladin Defender V1
Published on Nov 30, 2006

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/484066218911727618/496744305147510785/strat_holy_water_scaling.jpg

Uber pally DPS
Published on Oct 10, 2006

402

This is a game of numbers with a relatively low skill cap. Things like “heart” and “willpower” don’t affect anything. Reality is what reality is of those numbers. I’m not saying don’t experiment, but I’m saying when something has been tried and perfected, and it still sucks, move on.

403

MourtaghToday at 2:33 PM

https://legacyplayers.com/Raids/Viewer/Default.aspx?id=35557&amp;exp=0
Kill timers waaaaay too fast for my taste
But 950 average dps tho on all bosses
Molten Core
and i forgot pummeler on some fights RIP raid leading

average boss kill time for the entire run was ~20 seconds lol

2 Likes
404

Theloras - why shouldn’t I play Shaman? Cheers.

405

well, i personally hate the class lol - always found totems to be wonky but that’s me

that being said, the shaman theory crafters are looking at Enhancement variation of the SPELLADIN and using Flametongue in lieu of SoR iirc - so stay tuned if they are able to do similar things as to what we have theory crafted and tested on the beta for Paladins

3 Likes
406

Not really.
-MCP speeds up your swing rate meaning clipping your casts results in a dps gain from the spell but a dps loss from losing white swings.
-Mana useage might become a massive issue losing you other damage sources.

In otherwords it could result in more loss than a gain.

407

Hi Theloras,

I have a few questions that came up from other players while i discussed this topic in the german forum.

Questions / Objections

First came the objection of a player who said:
Shadow Oil and other consumables (like the Chili bufffood) will not scale with the +Spelldamage stat of the character.

Second objection:
Counterweight cannot be used with Shadow Oil at the same time on the same weapon.

Third question:
How does the Spelladin reach the spell-hit-cap / melee-hit-cap and does he need spell-hit-cap at all?

Fourth question:
How long can the Spelladin last in combat? I guess the player who asked this wanted to know if the Spelladin will get mana problems during longer bossfights.

Fifth question:
Which consumables can stack at all? (I know this topic came up in this thread here, but there were several positions…video links and so on…a clear list would be nice.)

410

guten tag Loravir - I’ll answer your questions in order:

First came the objection of a player who said:
Shadow Oil and other consumables (like the Chili bufffood) will not scale with the +Spelldamage stat of the character.

  • Shadow Oil scales at 56% of your spell damage from gear and scales with debuffs on the target such as Curse of Shadow, Imp Shadowbolt and Nightfall (or vulnerabilities such as Chromaggus +1100% shadow dmg)

Second objection:
Counterweight cannot be used with Shadow Oil at the same time on the same weapon.

  • this is a bit of a face palm one as Iron Counterweight is a permanent weapon enchant while Shadow Oil is a temporary one (30 mins) you can have one of each applied at the same time
  • Shadow Oil would NOT work with Windfury Totem however as both of those are temporary weapon enhancements

Third question:
How does the Spelladin reach the spell-hit-cap / melee-hit-cap and does he need spell-hit-cap at all?

  • neither are needed - our testing shows to max out as much spell dmg as possible - yes you will miss more but your dmg will be higher overall with as much spell dmg as you can get since you are swinging every ~1second

Fourth question:
How long can the Spelladin last in combat? I guess the player who asked this wanted to know if the Spelladin will get mana problems during longer bossfights.

  • with Judgement of Wisdom up it’s extremely mana effective - once AQ comes out and you can get Black Grasp of the Destroyer you will never oom with ~1sec swing time and SoR/JoR

Fifth question:
Which consumables can stack at all? (I know this topic came up in this thread here, but there were several positions…video links and so on…a clear list would be nice.)

  • come join our discord where we have everything laid out
    https://discord.gg/GehUZb2
  • and you can also test different setups, buffs, debuffs, rotations on the sheet here:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1avNLAbTb7bgsI_pYHK6xz9g8LBCLZvn94c_FfqF8pnc/edit?usp=sharing
411

Thanks for the answers. I already was in your discord, but I don’t really know the program. And I wasn’t able to find the list of stacking consumables…just Dexters BiS links and so.

Is there an intern CD for the shadow oil procc?

412

no shadow oil is a flat 15% proc rate

here is a screenshot of full world buffs and raid consumables that we would get/use:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/484066218911727618/484066275199287321/double_ret_deeps_thaddius.jpg

413

Ok, great.
I will translate and share the information (citing the source, of course) in the german forum.

At least I see you don’t use that arrows for sub-levels in postings and I also wasn’t able to finde the code for it in your US forum syntax guide in general discussion. We have a MVP over here who wrote the german forum syntax guide that contains that stuff.

This is the Code:
<1details1>
<1summary1>Spelladin BiS Gear Phase 1-6 <1/summary1>
Phase 1:
Phase 2:
Phase 3:
Phase…
<1/details1>

Just delete the “1” in the code. Than you will get this:

Spelladin BiS Gear Phase 1-6

Phase 1:
Phase 2:
Phase 3:
Phase…

This really helps to shorten up guides.

414

Unless there has been tests performed in beta, as far as I know, this is still disputed.

(Personally I agree with the person who raised the objection, I do not believe that it scaled with spell damage, but we’re waiting on data from Classic.)

(edit: Specifically the spell damage scaling, it did definitely scale with debuffs on the target.)

415

yes confirmed from our paladin testers on the beta and the wowtools website that is pulling data from the server

also confirmed on the beta to NOT eat Improved Shadow Bolt charges:

https://clips.twitch.tv/SassyMoldyEndiveDuDudu

  • SO doesn’t consume a ISB charge
  • SO receives +20% damage boost to the R3 Sbolt
  • SO R3 Sbolt has scaling
416

Data mining is very frequently wrong on this sorts of things, do you have a link to a test in beta?

417

just added it to above regarding ISB charges - but 56% scaling is confirmed by multiple testers on the beta

btw you can follow our collective beta testing progress here:

Paladin Beta Test Sheet
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Mm35UbThStzV-fxCwy1kK0QleiZCQTqryVz1qbsyt8g/edit#gid=0

418

I haven’t seen a confirmation of that yet, just wanted to check if you had one handy before I went searching :stuck_out_tongue:

I’m not entirely sure what’s happening in in the clip; is it benefiting from, but not consuming, the ISB debuff? If so, that’s definitely a bug of some kind, the only question is which way (should it be not-benefiting or should it be consuming).

419

shadow oil proc hit for 80 shadow dmg - which means it scaled with spell dmg that the warlock had as well as the +20% from ISB but did not eat an ISB charge

btw you can follow our collective beta testing progress here:

Paladin Beta Test Sheet
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Mm35UbThStzV-fxCwy1kK0QleiZCQTqryVz1qbsyt8g/edit#gid=0

1 Like
420

Definitely a bug, then, if it’s benefiting but not consuming, but that’s very interesting!

I wonder where the 56% came from. Rank 3 shadowbolt itself should be 80%.

Thanks for sheet link!