The solution to the H+ problem is.... more H++?

[Tav-pagle]

And thats completly fair. But my point remains.

[Backseat-pagle]

@Zoumz-zuljin

No one has a trinket or weapon from Naxx they’re still wanting as bis*. I’m totally fine with loot still being good one tier after.

You do not need previous tier bis to be able to clear content.

Incorrect. Dying Curse. Illustration. Etc.

@Zoumz-zuljin

Ulduar 10? Not really they didn’t buff 10m HM to drop 25m HM.
Again is there a pilot on that plane?
Buffing dungeons more than raids.

Actually Uld will see nerfs for next phase, so it will be a cakewalk.

Also, you call other people’s arguments “strawman” but every single response by you is a strawman. That there is some good irony.

[Sayuw-tichondrius]

Classic+, the imaginary expansion to vanilla would likely just be affixes on mobs.

No new raids, no new bg, no new talents, just affixes.

[Mukkabi-windseeker]

@Sayuw-tichondrius

No new raids, no new bg, no new talents, just affixes.

What do you think is coming after ICC is over, new content?

It’s going to be MC+ with some Vanilla H+ setups.

[Ziryus-pagle]

@Sayuw-tichondrius

Classic+, the imaginary expansion to vanilla would likely just be affixes on mobs.

No new raids, no new bg, no new talents, just affixes.

It’s mind boggling that anyone after seeing how much blizzard has messed up wrath classic thinks that classic+ would be anything other than retail.

[Seohyun-benediction]

Exactly! Pad engagement numbers is exactly what they do. I wouldn’t be surprised if they added the vault soon.

[Ravikto-lightbringer]

Blizzard has a very hard time thinking outside the box and spending the money they take for WotLK on the players of WotLK. They have learned that the sheep will run the same content over and over again if there are new shinny pixels at the end. Not to mention they are deaf to player suggestions and lack any real customer service.

[Jeynar-mannoroth]

@Gingamok-bloodsail-buccaneers

I really hope they can allow an option in the grouping tool to separate all of these difficulties out into their own sections, especially now that they’re adding yet another option.

That’s on the PTR, each H, H+ and H++ has it’s own categories.

Letting it fester without categories for this long though has done a LOT of damage, so I’m not sure it’s recoverable at this point.

[Jeynar-mannoroth]

@Gingamok-bloodsail-buccaneers

If there was no h+/h++ players that this content is geared for wouldn’t be running regular heroics either.

We’d be running heroic for the exact same reason we run h+/h++.

Badges.

[Zoumz-zuljin (Zoumz)]

@Backseat-pagle

Incorrect. Dying Curse. Illustration. Etc.

I have seen some classes still preferring those, but it’s elemental shaman or healers so yes you’re right and I generalized a bit. I would still be curious how well they perform as scales and flare just have higher budget for dps. Anyway, this only helps further my point that T7.5 would be good enough as an upgrade if some people would still want these.

@Backseat-pagle

Actually Uld will see nerfs for next phase, so it will be a cakewalk.

That doesn’t change anything much of what I’ve said.

@Backseat-pagle

Also, you call other people’s arguments “strawman” but every single response by you is a strawman. That there is some good irony.

You’re free to point them if you believe in that and want to have a discussion about it. If you’re just here to interject that’s also fine.

[Kelliste-antonidas (Kelliste)]

@Backseat-pagle

They saw the H+ engagement numbers in Phase 2.

Only because of the bag over doubling the amount of emblems you got. 1 week of H+ is 2 weeks of regular heroics as they were or 2 weeks of RDF.

Its going to make ToGC and ICC fly by cutting the weeks in half from what they were in Wrath proper.

RDF and H+ can exist. People saying no to it are doing it out of spite at this point in time.

I agree that H+ should have never been introduced and this isnt Wrath Classic.

[Angrella-azuresong]

I don’t see why they don’t just add m+ since its a system they allready have. Id rather run WOTLK dungeons as m+ than deal with the goofy h+ system. Also this would be more friendly for fresh lvl 80’s as they could get into lower m+ easier than h+.

[Ziryus-pagle]

@Angrella-azuresong

I don’t see why they don’t just add m+ since its a system they allready have. Id rather run WOTLK dungeons as m+ than deal with the goofy h+ system. Also this would be mo re friendly for fresh lvl 80’s as they could get into lower m+ easier than h+.

Adding proper M+ would be a lot more work, just like adding RDF would be or adding the real retail LFG Tool would be.

Adding proper M+ would require scaling gear, rotating affixes, keystones etc… just sticking a generic and static affix and reusing raid gear is much simpler.

[Jeynar-mannoroth]

@Angrella-azuresong

I don’t see why they don’t just add m+ since its a system they allready have.

Because a proper m+ system would involve scaling loot as well as scaling modifiers so it was never, ever going to happen for WotLK.

So instead we get this half-baked crap system of shifting loot around.

[Depressíng-earthfury]

@Kelliste-antonidas

Only because of the bag over doubling the amount of emblems you got. 1 week of H+ is 2 weeks of regular heroics as they were or 2 weeks of RDF.

It tripled it if you did double dailies. You could do the daily heroic and get your 2 emblems from the quest and 3 from the bag. Then at midnight server time (or 3 hours before the daily lockout resets after they hotfixed it), the daily dungeon would change, you could run that dungeon and get another +3 emblem bag.

[Ziryus-pagle]

@Depressíng-earthfury

@Kelliste-antonidas

Only because of the bag over doubling the amount of emblems you got. 1 week of H+ is 2 weeks of regular heroics as they were or 2 weeks of RDF.

It tripled it if you did double dailies. You could do the daily heroic and get your 2 emblems from the quest and 3 from the bag. Then at midnight server time (or 3 hours before the daily lockout resets after they hotfixed it), the daily dungeon would change, you could run that dungeon and get another +3 emb lem bag.

That only applied once they were all one 24 hour timers, just different timers.

[Jeynar-mannoroth]

At least that got fixed at some point, even if it was, as usual, much too late.

[Backseat-pagle]

@Ziryus-pagle

It’s mind boggling that anyone after seeing how much blizzard has messed up wrath classic thinks that classic+ would be anything other than retail.

Agreed. Their changes to Wotlk classic have been very, very retail.

Again, does anyone, anywhere, enjoy H+ AN? Is that “fun”?

@Jeynar-mannoroth

We’d be running heroic for the exact same reason we run h+/h++.

Badges.

Exactly. Back in OG wotlk queuing for RDF while knocking out some dailies was chill content outside of raids. Now, from start to finish (finding group, going to stone, doing dungeon) it’s around 1 hour…for 5 man content.

@Angrella-azuresong

I don’t see why they don’t just add m+ since its a system they allready have. Id rather run WOTLK dungeons as m+ than deal with the goofy h+ system. Also this would be more friendly for fresh lvl 80’s as they could get into lower m+ easier than h+.

This is exactly my point. H+/H++/H+++++ are essentially “Mythic+ Lite”. Which isn’t classic, it’s retail design creeping in.

[Bubbapurpz-ashkandi]

lol,
AN H+ IS a wipe fest with pugs. at least with the last boss

[Gravytrains-ashkandi]

yes, they are fun in the beginning but get really hard bc a lot of fresh 80s WITH 2.6K players are trying to do H+