The solution to the H+ problem is.... more H++?

Mythic+ as the 3rd pillar of the end game is coming to Classic.

Why?

Blizzard are doubling down on H+ by incentivizing people to run them even more with Uld10 HM loot in phase 3. They are expanding the rewards in an attempt to encourage players to do more H++'s.

They saw the H+ engagement numbers in Phase 2. They spiked on launch (badge farming), then completely died off. Maybe 1 group looking to fill even during prime server time.

Tanks had zero interest in running with pugs. Dungeon runs could take 45 mins or longer. A few guild groups here and there. Engagement basically completely died.

Itā€™s literally a frustrating experience. Try AN H+ with a pug of 3.9k ranged players. Noooo thanks. Too much time, too much risk, not enough reward.

It also is leading to raid logging. Who wants to run H+'s to gear up alts? No one. Definitely donā€™t meet the once important definition of ā€œfunā€.

Edit: to be super clear, I am definitely against H+, H++, mythic+ or anything similar to classic. By literal definition, itā€™s not classic. And they favor certain classes over other in what used to be casual content.

18 Likes

Iā€™d rather they put RDF than whatever attempt to bring M+ in Classic. And Iā€™m not that hot on RDF. Because at least one is a design for players, the other one is just to padd engagement numbers.

Iā€™d rather they keep buffing old raid drops as that is a way more fun and social experience than any dungeons could be and I think that part is working.

15 Likes

I enjoyed h+ and I still kind of do but I donā€™t seek it out as much as an activity. There were only two I refused to pug. Oculus, because pugs are bad at dragons and the dragons donā€™t scale great with gear. Gundrak, because the snake boss is awful with bad DPS in the group. Pulling that boss up the stairs to the instance portal helps a lot but if you have two bad DPS itā€™s still rough.

Iā€™m looking forward to h++ with friends/guildies but Iā€™m not sure if Iā€™ll run it with pug groups if itā€™s much tougher than single +.

2 Likes

Agreed, the H+ system is terrible as is.

It creates a void in the community which used to be filled by guildies and people running older phase raids to help gear people up. There is no need to introduce retail mechanics into a system that was already built well.

If it wasnā€™t structured well, why was the expansion the most popular? Why try to fix what isnā€™t broken? It simply makes no sense.

All this is going to do is force more people to run H++ for emblems to get the gear for raiding current phase raids. Making it even more difficult for new or returning players to gear up and get into raiding via regular heroics. Itā€™s a terrible design choice and it isnā€™t staying true to what WotLK was.

Personally, Iā€™m letting my sub run out and going back to FF14 after having learned about this. I see no reason in supporting a company that, frankly, is tearing apart the community building aspect of what was once a great expansion.

11 Likes

I donā€™t personally think itā€™s bad to offer harder dungeons for better loot but finding a normal heroic is quite hard. I really hope they can allow an option in the grouping tool to separate all of these difficulties out into their own sections, especially now that theyā€™re adding yet another option.

1 Like

The problem is moving 10m loot into a 5m dungeon. It doesnā€™t promote people to do older raids to help people gear. Itā€™s also more difficult to carry people through to help them get said gear. This ruins the community aspect of the game for new and returning players as well as making it more difficult to gear up alts. Ironic, considering that WotLK was once considered the most alt friendly xpac, when it was current.

9 Likes

Its being used as a catch up mechabic not an end game pillarā€¦

The only real issue with H, H+, H++ is that it isnt separated in the lfg tool.

1 Like

I still do naxx (and other ā€˜oldā€™ content) raids for new players and alts with my guild/frienda now and then.

H+ isnt stopping you from doing this.

I find it much easier to get 5 people to do a thing than 10. If itā€™s content for community and engagement what does the locale matter if people are doing stuff together?

It isnā€™t a welcoming mechanic for new or returning players. I would rather see the community grow and develop rather than stagnate and die out.

I would challenge you and redheadchild to start up on a new server with a fresh character and attempt to gear through heroics. the majority of the time, people want H+ only, which your gonna get kicked from because you donā€™t have the gear score. This will only get more difficult with H++.

2 Likes

Iā€™ve geared up quite a few of my friends alts through h+. It was a lot easier than finding an additional 5 players and an extra hour to clear Naxx 10.

Iā€™ve got more alts that need gearing in heroics and Iā€™m up to that challenge. Iā€™m not rolling on a new server, Iā€™ve got friends on mine to help and Iā€™d advise any new or returning player to do just that to get groups, be social, make friends.

sure, you have the connections made already. How about people who dont have those connections?
Where are those connections made? Usually through raiding or doing heroics. Short of getting into a good guild that is friendly enough to help carry people for gear, youā€™re not going to have a good time as a fresh 80 on a server.

Your just proving exactly what im saying. Without some help from friends, your screwed as a new or returning player.

4 Likes

I can get a decent amount of gear just from doing most of the icecrown and storm peak quests.

Between the emblems to buy emblem gear, the gold to get a few action house items, and the ability to fill in the rest with reputation/pvp/crafted gear it is more than doable to get enough gear to do heroic+ at this time. H++ though, that might be a different story.

However it is more than doable.

As I said, gear through heroics. That is different than using pvp/crated gear to get your gs up. Reputation gear is kind of a given but that is also time gated via daily quests and not everyone is going to spend the thousands of gold itā€™ll take to get the crafted boeā€™s. Pvp gear is also a waste of emblems, for those individuals not interested in pvp.

Itā€™s not a system that is friendly to new or returning players. You obviously arenā€™t a new or returning player. Think beyond yourself.

no one is taking their fresh 80 into a H+ unless theyā€™re getting carried by a guild group. doubly so for the upcoming H++. it will straight up be easier to just do a pug of Naxx/Uld10 to catch up than to bash your head against H++

7 Likes

They fixed this. On ptr heroic, alpha and beta have their own section in the LFG tool.

1 Like

If you canā€™t make the connections from grouping with players join a leveling/casual guild. Every server has one or two.

Because dungeons would be dead otherwise.

Not always that simple. Only reason I was able to get into one was because I know many of them IRL. If it wasnā€™t for that then I wouldnā€™t have been able to get geared up in a reasonable amount of time and would have gotten frustrated with my time being wasted and quit.

All in all, its simply a poor design choice.

Itā€™s fine for content to have an end.