There’s a couple on Ashkandi (not a big server by any means) during raid times 6-11pm. They surely came back a bit more as people are doing more alts currently even seeing a decent amount of dungeons groups while leveling.
People were begging to buy it with badges (at any cost, 1000, 2000, you name it) by the time ZA came out. Sounds kind of familiar.
Because they never buffed raid drop. Adding 2 more pieces of loot per phase would do great.
H+/++ hurts gdkp.
Thats a plus.
I can totally see people selling boost to H++ if they go through with this xd There’s no winning here. If you don’t like GDKPs don’t go on mega servers and you’ll see a lot less of them.
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So much this. The retail anti-alt design philosophies continue to creep into classic. They literally don’t understand why H++++ etc makes the game alt-unfriendly.
Completely agreed. It’s hilarious that Naxx10 is far easier and more rewarding than 5 man H+ dungeons. For time spent, it’s a far better reward. Making 5mans hard for the casual boomer is literally killing the game.
Completely the opposite. People would rather do GDKPs than do H+. Better loot/time investment and certainty of outcome (yes, H+ groups fall apart all the time).
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I don’t see H+ as a problem. If you don’t like H+, dont run it. Normal heroics still exist. And if you can’t run normal heroics because everyone runs H+, then is there a problem with H+? Seems like people prefer it.
Wouldn’t RDF be added to pad engagement numbers? Apparently everyone on every forum is quitting to the lack of RDF or hates the lack of RDF. H+ offers more avenues to gear up, RDF just makes more dungeons happen.
They move the 25man loot, which is better than 10man loot, to 10 mans. The whole shift loot down to easier content helps people get more gear. Having an easy path to gearing helps alts.
Padding engagement is giving more rewards than the content need and timegating them even longer like the new currency wants to do.
RDF doesn’t give you a reason to run dungeons longer than you need to.
But outside the first two or three weeks to get the new badge currency, is any one who actively raids even going to participate in the newest heroic+? The content is essentially designed for characters without Uld25man gear to get some Uld10 gear to prep for a Uld25 or Toc10 run.
dont need gdkp ion the first place
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You do not need H+ gear to get into Uld25 or ToC 10 run. You’re just replacing raid content with dungeon content.
ToC is already a catchup raid. Buffing older raid loot drops is good enough for anyone to get there.
If they keep 10m hm loot from it geared people will want to do it as loot is still rng outside of it. ToC 10 normal is the same ilvl as 25m Ulduar, 10m hm Ulduar loot is higher than ToC 10m normal gear. The logical step was making H++ T7.5 (Naxx 25M) gear and that would have been a decent compromise. It would still help people access content and wouldn’t be this huge step as currently H+ to H++ is a +26 ilvl.
H++ is only a 26 ilvl jump because of the ilvl boost.
The jump from H++ to H+++ will be much smaller.
If a group of 10 friends decided to start playing and all dinged 80 at the start of the raid week. They would have a much easier time in TOC10 if they took some time to run some Heroic++ together to get some Uld10 loot.
If that same group of 10 players had been raiding Uld10 this entire time, they wouldn’t get any benefit from running Heroic++ before attempting Toc10.
Heroic++ is catch up gear.
Uld10 is a more efficent use of time to get better gear, Raiding is still the best way to progress. Heroic++ is a slower, but more grindable avenue.
Which is also another reason why this is even worse. It wouldn’t be as bad if they didn’t buff hm loot. They buffed them to make people go for hm as you would need a lot less gear from them if it wasn’t the case. But then after making this gear more valuable they want to ship it to dungeons? Is there a pilot on that plane?
They would have an easier time if they also ran the other content which makes Wrath of the Lich King. Like Naxx and Ulduar to get in ToC. Moreover, by buffing raid loot that process is way faster.
I still disagree with that statement, H+ was made so people wouldn’t do the same unscaled dungeons all expansion as that would kinda boring to get emblems. Moreover, incentivizing dungeons more just cannibalize raids. You’re not adding something, you’re moving player attention from raids to dungeons. And I totally disagree with that.
What player who wants to progress their character decides that this entire expac, they will just run Heroic+? If those people exist, they weren’t going to raid anyways. Is the big concern that the existance of Heroic++ will mean that there won’t be ulduar pug groups? Because people are still running Naxx pugs.
Raids are smoother and there is less responsibility per person. Raiding Ulduar 10 for Uld25 gear is still way more attractive than running H++ for Uld10 gear. Especially if they decide to nerf Ulduar in any ways.
Also, getting a Heroic lockout does not prevent someone from raiding. I don’t think the existence of heroic+ providing Naxx10 loot in any way stopped Naxx runs from happening. Maybe it caused less Naxx25 runs because you can get the same loot for Naxx10 and those are easier to put together, but I don’t think there is a noticeable difference in pug counts because they launched heroic+
Edit: I just looked on WCL. There we’re 5500 Naxx25 kills and about 5000 Naxx10 kills over the last 2 weeks. That’s about 10% of Ulduar kill counts.
That’s a strawman
pukes You want to get in that argument with retail M+ maybe. Wotlk dungeons? you’re trolling.
Ulduar 10? Not really they didn’t buff 10m HM to drop 25m HM.
Again is there a pilot on that plane?
Buffing dungeons more than raids.
Just watch what happened with retail and raid participation when they made M+ completely replace it, that’s what you’re pushing.
H+ isn’t as strong as H++ will be. Like I said there would be a compromise if this was T7.5 gear instead of Ulduar and Ulduar hms.
Every guild is looking for players at this point. If you can’t make connections in a social game that’s a you problem.
Also, where are these mythical unicorns called “new players”? They literally hardly exist. Why use a straw man to make your argument? If that example is not zero, it is negligible.
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You left out the rest of the thought, which offered a more charitable interpertation.
They shifted loot down. People’s complaints against Heroic++ would be MUCH stronger if they removed the 10HM loot off the 10man tables and the ONLY way you could get it is the Heroic++ system.
Dungeons got the same buff that raids did for iLvl, its just delayed a tier. When Ulduar 10 released, raiders got access to gear that went from 226 to 252 while dungerons got gear that went from 200 to 213.
That’s just the nature of the iLvl boost and how the heroics are getting last tier’s raid loot.
And it seems people are happy with that. It turns out people like playing with smaller groups of people than organizing play time with 20 people at a time.
I don’t play retail, but as I understand it, Mythic raiding is still the only way to get the highest ilvl gear. I’m not sure if mythic 20+ keys give access to the same iLvl
Yes the logic would be to make H++ drop T7.5 gear and keep Ulduar 10m loot 10m but double it.
HM loot is supposed to better than that tier, it’s equivalent to p3 loot. That was the point of buffing it. It doesn’t make sense to add it to dungeons.
Less and less, they didn’t get more players from it. They only got engagement. They have stopped with the wowtoken on retail to design the game for players as your sub doesn’t matter.
The Vault with M+ gives you access to equivalent of the best gear, crafting too. Mythic raiding only offers higher ilvl for the 2 last bosses. Which is pretty irrelevant compared to how raids used to work. You no longer farm raids for gear, you mostly do them only for progression.
I mean, that’s why I raid right now. I also do FF14 savage tier (essentially the raid tier). Yeah, the raiding scene gets you marginally better gear, but the gear you get from normal puggable content or crafting is good enough for all content. We’re not killing the bosses because they drop better loot, we’re killing the bosses because its fun to learn the fight and overcome it.
Good. This is literally the plan for what H+ means…
They are catch up mechanics, they’re not supposed to be end game gameplay.
I still do Nax runs with my alts, the same is going to happen once phase 3 launches.
Ppl will still do Uld 10hms for extra loot and emblems.
Guilds will still do Uld 25hms for Valanyr and 252 items