The shallowness of Human Lore in Warcraft--Why?

Lore Story Forum
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Hello Baal, it is interesting that you mention NY, since among its founders are precisely immigrants expelled from the Northeast of Brazil, after the fall of the Dutch enclave in the state of Pernambuco.

Therefore, in the oldest cemetery in NY you will find tombstones with inscriptions in Portuguese.

About Africa, it is a continent and although Brazil has the size of one, it is just one country.

And I agree with you too.

I know, and I am saying that in the Brazilian case, you should take into account the historical aspects of migration to the country, and not just a one-year period.

Since Brazil has a much greater diversity set than people in the global north tend to point out.

Dude, I don’t know who you are, and I don’t know who this person you’re quoting is, if you think I’m this person you’re quoting it’s very easy to prove the opposite, enter the Brazilian world of warcraft forum and look for my nickname.

You’ll see that I’ve historically posted there for years, and that I’ve never participated in the North American forum.

Also, I’m Brazilian and I’m black. So your speech is beyond stupid and misguided.

I basically agree with almost all of Baal’s posts, including following him on twitter.

Furthermore, I am well aware of the whitewashing process and the myth of racial democracy that haunts the racial debate in my own country. I don’t need lessons from you, especially since I am a leader of the black movement at my university.

Saying that Brazil has not suffered a process of miscegenation, even if it was the result of rape, is stupidity to say the least.

Please spare me your paranoia, as I’m only interested in a sincere debate, and contributing to this forum tab that I really enjoy.

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I’ve never presented this argument. I said the miscegenation narratives often serve a political agenda. And I was talking to Monrowe, as it was explicitly stated in this thread.

If you don’t want to be challenged on your ideas, then do not perpetuate harmful narratives. Your student leadership and identities shouldn’t be a shield for logics, ideologies, and arguments you’ve stated here. I do not care for neoliberal representation politics. “Listen to XYZ Group” logic is toxic and often used to uphold oppressive institutions and systems. There are plenty of people who’ve internalized and perpetuate harmful things about their communities.

Does this clear things up for you? I’m not paranoid. It’s a reading comprehension issue regarding the alt. Thanks.

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You quoted me and you were talking to someone else? I’m sorry if this seems the least bit confusing.

About neoliberal logic, I agree with you, the model of racial struggle in the USA is totally different from Brazil. In fact, one of the motivators of the North American black movement in the 1950s was precisely its involvement with Brazilian blacks in the Second World War, since Brazilians and North American blacks acted in the same theater of operations in Italy during the Second World War.

In the 1950s, many North American black intellectuals specifically cited the Brazilian case in which black soldiers had a hierarchical position living with whites to question the apartheid policy of North American culture.

Rest assured that in Brazil we never needed North American narratives about racial struggle, because we black people here in Brazil fought dozens of civil wars against our oppressors, we built our own heroes, like Zumbi that you mention.

However, Brazil received immigrants from other parts of the world, and although 54% of the Brazilian population is black, we are a country of 215 million inhabitants and there are millions of other people who also have an impact on our culture that do not need to be erased so that do justice to black culture.

And to say that these cultures did not have an impact in Brazil when we have one of the most diverse cuisines in the world, with influences from all over the world is rather trying to diminish my country’s cultural heritage.

In Brazil, we see ourselves as Brazilians first and foremost, so for us this talk of ethnicity that is carried out in the global north sounds strange to us. We have 5 million descendants of Japanese, 8 million descendants of Lebanese, twice the population of Lebanon, 6 million descendants of Syrians, and about 40 million descendants of Italians.

All these populations have strong cultural elements from their predecessor cultures in their cultural habits, however all of them will say they are Brazilian, because that is how in our culture we tend to see this discussion of racial heritage.

That’s why you will see millions of German, Italian and Japanese speakers in Brazil, you will find the Japanese neighborhood in São Paulo da “Liberdade” which has hundreds of thousands of Japanese descendants, but all are Brazilian.

Therefore, we do not accept these categories of sociological analysis, as this ethnic discussion coming from the USA is simply ridiculous for us. Our ethnic perception is totally linked to cultural heritage, however the genetic heritage of almost every Brazilian is several times more diverse than that of the average American.

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I quoted both of you. I thought it’d be clear who I was speaking to in the context of what was being said in the thread.

I supposed I should’ve quoted them again before I said their names that they used to harass and antagonize people on here.

Thank you for expounding on the context of your ideas. I disagree with so much of what you just said based on the international solidarity work of decolonial movement workers in Brazil who I love, am in communal kinship with, and learn from to form my own critical lens, sociological frameworks, and personal and political value system that conditions my own activism and grassroots struggle.

But that’s neither nor there. I feel like we can have a spirited conversation that can last multiple days, and while intellectually invigorating, but I don’t have the willingness or capacity for it at the moment. I rarely post on here but I wanted to take my time and present a different perspective and framework to approaching this topic as I’m very passionate about it. People can take it how they want, expound on it, or dive deeper into it at their own leisure. Good luck to you and your student activism. I have a respect for any young person who engages in grassroots community struggle in academia, even if we may differ substantially on our politics. It’s very difficult work.

Also, I really want Renautus/Mithonic to leave people of color on here alone and get the treatment and intervention she needs. It’s beyond disturbing what she’s been doing in this Forum for so many months. It’s heinous and evil.

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If this was all a misunderstanding, I apologize. About my points, I understand your disagreement, but the relationship with being black in Brazil is different from the USA, it is less based on ethnic aspects and more on cultural aspects, so much so that it is extremely common in Brazil for whites to participate in Afro-centered religions such as Umbanda and candomblé.

People tend to characterize Brazil as if it were the same as other Latin American countries, when Brazil is simply the country with the most bizarre history in the Americas.

Even the founding of Brazil followed a different path than the continent, as we were an empire for 60 years, being a country that historically was insulated from the rest of the world. Historically, Latin America saw Brazil as a belligerent country, and Simon Bolivar’s idea was to unify the former Hispanic provinces to oppose the Empire of Brazil, which he saw as an enemy.

This isolation persists until today, since in Brazil there is no tradition of involvement with other countries, our cultural consumption is self-centered, and we are one of the 3 countries in the world that consumes more national music than that coming from the USA .

We have a deeply racist economic elite, which never saw the people of our country as a people, but as semi-slave labor. Unfortunately Brazil in my opinion is what the USA would have been if the South had won the civil war. What sounds like an irony, since during the North American civil war the southerners proposed to the Brazilian emperor to help in the war, and that if they won they would join Brazil in the formation of an empire based on slave labor.

And for that reason, comparisons with the US seem more coherent to me when we talk about Brazil, as we are very different from the rest of the continent, but very similar in terms of bizarre things to the US.

And finally, I would say that even though I think my country and culture are fantastic, it would not be an exaggeration to say that we are the most contradictory country in the West, and that is why people usually analyze Brazil in a way that many Brazilianists who study the country in academia tend to to say superficial.

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What’s the different cultures in D&D for Humans? Because I already know my Warhammer, Lord of the Rings, and Elder Scrolls Lore of Humans.

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I think Blizzard did a pretty good job making Kul Tiras feel fleshed out and it’s own thing, despite everyone speaking with cockney accents of course, because any medieval human setting=bri’ish accents.

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Afro-Brasileiros only make up 7.61% of Brazil’s population compared to US which is 12.1 percent. I don’t know why you replied to me specifically as I only linked a Wikipedia article which has accurate facts about the ethnic diversity of Brazil. I think you think I am trying to invalidate whatever point you made but I am not.

Immigration, ethnic diversity of any given area is based on a lot of factors.

I don’t even know who you are. I just posted a wiki link. If that’s harassment you need a life. Stop trolling. You first Post here was a reply to me, You have no other post history here troll.

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Do you realize you’re attacking somone who has the authority to speak on the subject, because that is their race and ethnicity. But from what I experience seeing of you and Baal on Twitter, that’s exactly what you do while playing the race card, you bully and harass other people of colour, and when called out you cry about tone policing.

One of the things I have noticed from your community on Twitter is you are against diversification. You don’t want to recognize the positivity in Multiculturalism, instead you see it as an attack on culture. That’s where You and I fundimentally disagree. I’m not talking about a melting pot here but true multiculturalism where different cultures have a space to thrive or cultures incorperating different pracistics into their own cultural practice. Take for example, since this is my area of expertise since it’s my culture. Native people and Ukranian people share multiculturalism due to sharing the same cultural struggles. When Ukranian refugees settled next to Indigenous communities a lot of culture was shared. Indigenous people now incorperate Ukranian scarves into Indigenous regailia, they are called “kokoum scarves.” it’s a sign of respect to that bond made with Ukranian over shared struggles, this is a bond that crosses racial barriers.

I don’t think you realize your behavior and opinions are racist, you want to maintain racial and cultural barriers that create ‘otherness’

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The main human groups seem to be summarised into:

  • Calisites (had to spell it that way because the “sh” followed by “it” is censored): Follow the Middle east fantasy and folklore, with an appearance akin to the one you’d find in SA. They have ties with elemental magics through the Djins/Genies.

  • Chondathans: Sort of the travellers amongst humans, without a permanent region to call theirs. Their fantasy and culture is focused on unspecific merchant tropes, akin to some that inspired the Hobbit movie adaptation for Esgaroth.

  • Damarans: Based on Arthurian fantasy, although with a VERY heavy emphasis on religion and zealotry. Reading into them gives you an explanation about why this is, and the past traumas that caused them to be that way. Pretty interesting to be honest. Reminded me of what would happen if the Scarlet Crusade made a country of their own.

  • Tethyrians: These are another bunch that far from having a staple or defined culture, are sort of mixed into the other ethnic groups. But unlike for example Chondathans, there is a more unique approach with them, regarding the fact that they are more prone to be a sort of “lone wolf” culture that values personal freedom the most. Thats probably the reason why they had them have this approach about wandering about into any/all other groups.

  • Illuskans: To keep it short and simple, Viking/Nord fantasy and physiques. If their overall story and theme wasn’t enough of a clue, these are also called Northlanders.

  • Mulan: Seemingly based on some south and centre Asia fantasies but with a mixture of Egyptian god worship. They have a very distinct angle and heavy focus on magic.
    These ones, hold close ties with the main antagonist of the current D&D movie: The Red Wizards of Thay, or simply called Red Wizards.
    Which, to have some approximation to WoW, basically represent what would’ve happened if Dalaran turned evil.

  • Rashemi: A lot of ties with Mulan, as some of them cohabit certain areas. The main motif they have is that they make up some of the fiercest fighters amongst humans, and are renown for their berserkers.

There are a lot more, and i may have missed some key aspects of these groups, but overall, even if they overlap on several aspects, these have a lot of distinctions i miss in WoW.

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depends on the specific D&D setting. different worlds have different peoples. Gerwin already listed the ones from Forgotten Realms. I know the Greyhawk setting pretty well, so I can list the ones from there if you like:

Baklunish: ‘Middle Easterners’ (though given maps of the gaming area, they’d in-universe be called ‘Northwesterners’), including a religious split miming Sunni/Shia. Won a Pyrrhic victory over the Suloise Empire over 1000 years ago.
Flan: ‘Native Americans’. Aside from a few places, mostly wiped out by new settlers (either killed outright or interbreed out of existence)
Suloise: basically the N### fantasy of the Aryans, the whitest of whites who once had a mighty empire that got destroyed and scattered them to the four winds. Origin of both Greyhawk’s version of the Vikings and a certain racial purity group with a twisted black cross on a red flag. Also, a few isolated barbarians in the far southern areas. Outside of the barbarians, ‘Vikings’ and ‘N####’, pretty heavily interbred with the other races.
Oeridians: ‘Celts’. The most explicitly warlike, aggressive and widespread human ethnicity; the Great Kingdom, Greyhawk’s Roman Empire (currently rebuilding from a long decedent collapse) was of mixed Oeridian/Suloise origin.
Rhenee: ‘Roma’. Pretty stereotypical gypsies, only they live on big river barges and ply the waterways and great lakes rather than horse-drawn carriages on roads. Literally appeared out of nowhere a couple hundred years ago, may actually be actual real Roma from Earth magically dumped into Greyhawk.
Olmans: ‘Mesoamericans’. Lived and ruled in the hot southern jungles. Empire collapsed due to internal strife and wars against evil snake-men. Currently in a degraded state under the thumb of Suloise N###/Conquistadors.
Touv: ‘South Sahara Africans’. Have only very recently made more than fleeting contact with the ‘Europe’ to the north of them. Independent city states that briefly united into a single empire that later collapsed relatively peacefully (Great Zimbabwe?).

Note that after +1000 years of living/fighting/trading the ‘average’ human in the region of Greyhawk is mixed enough that they probably don’t heavily identify with any specific ethnicity, and identify by political nation first and foremost.

‘Off the map’, there are names of nations that are clearly supposed to be analogues to India, China, Japan, Mongolia, and maybe a Japanese-occupied Korea.

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Lord have mercy, it appears some Twitter drama spilled over.

I would not know about the inane thoughts of a “Twitter community” until now, when this person ranted about it.

A “Twitter Community” is basically sycophantic twits who want to eat off the dust of “Made in China Musk”

Can we get back to the story…

Although, creating a drinking game every time “Twitter” is mentioned might be a good way to get blotto

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I see you typing. I am dissapointed in you Yazzmonia, you could be a great activist in this community but you’ve just proven to me you are not a great BIPOC ally. Good luck with your endevors in the WoW community I hold no grudge, but tell your bestie Baal he’s a coward and a chauvanist, instead of debating me and others himself he has to get his community to harass us instead.

You have no idea how long I have been asking him to prop the voices of WoC in this community so of course he would manipulate you to come after me. You a WoC, who has no idea how much I have been advocating for YOUR VOICE to be heard within the WoW community.

And that’s all I am going to say about that. Goodbye.

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You just googled and decided to go with the top search result. You are lacking historical and political context for that statistic. That number is from a 2010 census. That’s 13 years ago. Race is not a static construct. It’s based on political consciousness and you’re not aware of how Black Brazilian thought on racial theory and praxis has evolved over the past decade. You decided to skip the part where over half of the people in that census identified as 'preto ’ or ‘pardo’, which is African descent. More Black Brazilians are claiming Pan-African identity and their ancestral roots since a decade old survey which are being affirmed in their activism and grassroots struggle today, especially in light of the epidemic of Black trans murders and state-sanctioned violence against their communities. You ignored what I stated about mestizaje and your love for blood-quantum “multiculturalism” and how it obscures Indigeneity and Blackness in Latin America. There’s scores of Brazilian scholars that discuss the policy and propaganda of miscegenation to control, oppress, and control the AfroIndigenous population. Since you seem to know how to Google, maybe you can scroll down a few search results to articles that discuss this in length.

So you’re not denying that you’re Renautus/Mithonic. You repeatedly engage with Baal and other players on alts who have explicitly stated that they do not want to interact with you. You accuse them of harassing and bullying you but then go on alts to start arguments and debates with people who don’t want to speak with you. You’ve been doing this for over a year. What’s not clicking? You are one of the most spiritually and psychologically afflicted people I have ever encountered.

A principled literature review will result in countless scores of intellectual analysis on how your neo-colonial ideas of multiculturalism actually harms decolonial and Black liberation movements and struggles. I’m talking about structural inequalities rooted in a historical and political context, theorized from a radically insurgent worldview that goes against traditional, mainstream epistemic models in academia. You vaguely conjure one example from “your culture” [and we don’t know what your actual culture is because you lie about everything and collect ethnicities and blood quantum percentages spanning every continent like Thanos collected Infinity Stones] that illustrates one Native community gesturing solidarity to an immigrant group out of a need for shared survival on stolen land. That example doesn’t negate anything I said about narratives of miscegenation framed in reactionary “multiculturalism” propaganda that impacts perception, policy, and practice on a macro level. This is a systemic approach to understanding settler-colonialism and racial capitalism from a framework of historical trauma, which is an Indigenous theoretical model.

This is so funny to me. You created a whole false narrative that I am attacking someone, ignoring how we ended our exchange on an amicable note. Because that doesn’t serve you, so you create lies and lie on people constantly. There are plenty of people who belong to a race and ethnicity that are not an “authority” on their community. Communities are not a monolith. There are plenty of Black Brazilians who would disagree with Arthenius just like there are plenty of people who disagree with me in my own community. Identity and Lived Experience have limits. You require historical study, a specific value system, and for many indigenous communities - a lineage and inheritance of these values from one generation of community struggle to the next. You don’t know that. Because all you do is co-opt political slogans and ideas to further your personal beefs and weaponize them in self-serving ways on the Internet. You can’t even keep your myriad of lies in order, let alone a politically coherent belief system.

The day I take seriously some cracker-fried, clinically and spiritually disturbed, terminally online middle-aged white woman - that pathologically lies about everybody and surveils, switches alts constantly to antagonize/harass 3 men of color on a web forum for over a year - on who or what’s racist, is the day my colonized, melanated ancestors stop aging me like fine wine. And that’s gonna be never, ma’am. And that’s specifically ‘ma’am’, emphasis on a woman of a certain age who should know better than the way you’ve been behaving for over a year. Surveilling and harassing men of color that are half your age.

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This is so funny. You think I’m “Yazzmonia”? She eats fake, toxic white woman “allies” like you for breakfast, lunch, dinner. :joy: :rofl:

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I posted a link in a thread. I did not reply to him. I did not mention him at all. at this point it’s you and him that is harassing me. You named Mith/Ren, you said I was harassing him when I was not. I cannot escape, Your community that harasses me knows all my alts.

I don’t think you know the full weight of the harassment I have experienced from him and his friend Doness that I have experienced in the last eight months. You are just adding yourself to a dogpile. I’m not your enemy. I am an Indegenous women. Your friends claim I am not indigenous dispite, me talking about being indigenous since I first started posting here in 2020. That’s where is started with this - I used to talk openly about the tauren being cultural apprpriation.

I’ve been posting in this community since 2020. I’ve made some friends and some enemies but being harassed and blocked by a Twitter community based on lies is a new experience for me. As far as I know you and I don’t even know eachother so you don’t have a full understanding of me to make any kinds of comments about my character and my role in this forum.

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Ma’am, be serious. You think 99% of Story Forum regulars are sick of your crap because of two people? You think we haven’t seen your modus operandi for over a year?

You’ve been at it for so long. Surveiling, switching alts, antagonizing people through subliminal insults about their personal lives on posts and replies that don’t mention them by name in order to incite folks. Then you play the victim and create narratives so far removed from reality. You desperately need an intervention. You are one of the most disturbed people I’ve ever encountered. I genuinely feel sorry for you. I have empathy and compassion, but that doesn’t mean you are immune from accountability for all the harm that you cause.

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You don’t even know me all you believe is lies. If me speaking up against sexism and racism in this community has given me a bad rap than it is what it is. I don’t have the same platform you do, nor would I belong in your circle. I feel it’s very disinengous for your to come into this community and say I don’t have a space here.

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Praying for you, ma’am. Bless your heart. But leave people alone.

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The condecension in your voice is awesome, please continue.

Girl, you go on with your bad self.

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