No, what I mean is they went back and retconned the ethnicities of NPCs that had always had names.
If that is what you mean then no, I don’t think they went back on their word:
I think, in some ways we’re frankly viewing this as a bit of a retcon. Like, we’re not going to change existing named, established characters and make them look different.
Established being the key word, as in you actually have to have been important enough, probably at least D list character in WoW for that to apply.
Random vendor number 3 does not apply.
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Typical Ion weaselry. My position is unmoved.
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Well, Blizzard shot themselves in the foot with that one, as they made several noteworthy Blackrock characters such as Saurfang, be greenskinned too.
Still, this is one of the things that would excuse a rework of WoWs current character creation screen.
I recently found out the one Baldur’s Gate 3 uses, and i find the model quite in line with what i’d want wow to be.
You can see how it presents several “core” races, and then presents each one with a “Subrace” option that allows further customisation.
An interface such as this one, would help prune the bloated WoW one, as it would dump together the different iterations of each race.
That way, upon selecting an orc, you’d then have the possibility of going for the appearence of each clan (be them AU or otherwise).
And the same would apply for other redundant examples such as Trolls, Dwarves, Humans, Elves, Tauren,…
I rather they gave us red ones.
Oh, and a Warlock class to go with them 
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Baal is right, culturally any human kingdoms should be based on anglosphere cultures. Skin color should remain a cosmetic physical variation for humans.
If future human kingdoms do meaningfully vary physically I think they should follow the set pattern. Elves diverge based on the energy they draw from, trolls vary based on the environment they’re from, some races are touched by wild gods/elementals etc. The theme for humans should be afflictions, as with the forsaken and worgen. An involuntary state they have to adapt to. Kul tirans would have fit the pattern if they were K’thir freed from old gods.
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It’s be so easy:
Kul Tiras
- IRL basis = Regency UK, Early Colonial US, Lovecraft New England, Republic of Venice Renaissance
- Internal human struggle = some people are mixed Vrykul and mixed Kthir
- Political struggle = reveal all alliance race pirates are actually controlled by the Lord Admiral
Gilneas
- IRL basis = Victorian England, Industrial Revolution histories of England, Fake histories of “Ancient Witch Cult of the UK”
- Internal struggle = Worgen curse but make it genetic
- Political struggle = Harvest Witches vs Church of Light, Pureblood Humans vs Worgen Humans
Strom
- IRL basis = Holy Roman Empire period Germany, Early Modern Scandinavian Countries, Diluted Vikings
- Internal struggle = disgusted by how low the Other Kingdoms have fallen, maybe they’re Anti Mages now due to Dalaran’s neutrality
- Political struggle = hardline war hawks (or, war eagles, as it were), few numbers but radicals
Etc etc etc
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100%.
There is enough fantasy to be had in the diverse background of the european medieval fantasy, to feed a hundred different kinds of motifs.
My issue there is that i reject that the these anglosphere cultures (Western, European, or whatever) are to be taken as having White Skinned humans as default.
Or that they should ignore the physical differences of humans that would logically operate in said cultures.
Not to be self-centred or anything, but i would love some narrative regarding the fantasy of several particular cultures around Europe…without having them sport the demographics of modern day NY for no discernible reason.
Baalsamael made a point about this being necessary to avoid baiting racists and all. But i think that these would appear regardless, and its Blizzards job to be on the lookout and punish them if necessary.
I wouldn’t let these people dictate what sort of stories i can or cannot tell.
To clarify, I started this thread taking a look at D&D and really liked the way they addressed this with these collectives for example:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Chondathan
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Rashemaar
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Calimshan
And i must say, that i’m really REALLY struggling to understand (although i’m trying) the issue some have with expanding on WoW human kingdoms in a similar way. Yes, including the fact that the population of either could be slightly different from one another.
the oldest remains outside of africa were found in eastern europe and were older as the oldest remains found in africa…for your information…its not so long ago…1-2 years, it was in eastern europe, in greece , to be exactly, it´s much older then the oldest remains found in africa.
The fossil found in Greece was the oldest human remains found outside of Africa. The oldest sapiens fossils date from around 300,000 years ago at Jebel Irhoud, Morocco. Not sure where you’re getting your information from, but that’s quite a bit older than the fossil found in Greece dated in 2019.
i speak about…1,4 Million years ago, and the other one is a ancestor of the human lineage and its 9 million years old, the later on is a rediscovery from 1990.
I thought we were talking about humans here. H. Sapiens.
Zahir is right about the bones/skeleton they found in Greece. It was found in a cave I believe and it’s some of the oldest human bones we have to date
Experts now believe H-Sapians migrated out of Africa a lot earlier than they originally thought
i spoke about a H.Sapiens partly, the found that is 1.4 Million years old is a h. Sapiens.
the experts are split in two-three camps now, some beliefe that the roots of humanity lies around north africa, west asia and southeast europe…other beliefe in africa in general and others start to debate again from new because it was assumed that they come from africa (Cause oldest remainds where found there) and now want to roll up the whole thing again and say that they come from europe, where the oldest are from now.
we will see, i would laugh if someone will find older remains in…india or something, what then will happen.
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That’s not H. sapiens, chief.
A broken skull chiselled from a lump of rock in a cave in Greece is the oldest modern human fossil ever found outside Africa, researchers claim.
The partial skull was discovered in the Apidima cave on the Mani peninsula of the southern Peloponnese and has been dated to be at least 210,000 years old.
If the claim is verified – and many scientists want more proof – the finding will rewrite a key chapter of the human story, with the skull becoming the oldest known H.Sapiens fossil in Europe by more than 160,000 years.
Suprisingly it is and it has the potential to rewrite a key part of human history as we currently know it
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Ooo. Let me try.
Stromguarde:
Prussian/German Empire with a dash of viking era Norway thrown in—A highly militaristic state sees the army as the symbol of the state’s legitimacy. Its citizens take pride in supporting it’s growth and advancement. Mandatory military service for men and women is a cultural expectation and your accomplishments during your time of service often were reflected in your class after you returned to being a citizen.
Lordaeron:
Byzatine Empire—A fragment of the greater empire of Arathor which survived when the old empire fell. Has a love for tradition, places a high value on family and respecting traditional hierarchy. Exceedingly Religious, but its traditions of the Holy Light diverged from those of Stormwind as much as Orthodox Christianity and Catholicism do.
Dalaran:
Switzerland—A staunchly neutral state with an exceedingly high standard of living for its citizens and extraordinary wealth due to its arcane might. Have it be a magocratic federation ruled over by large factions of mages who elect the most accomplished among them to be part of the High Council as an Archmage, which in turn elects its speaker by popular vote.
Alterac:
The Free State of Iceland—A strange decentralized state whose governance was built on fines and the degree of outlawery which stripped one of citizenship and permitted the legal murder of said person if caught in Alterac lands after a fortnight. A small and resource poor nation based on cattle and ownership of pasture as wealth. Its internal grudges and blood feuds were legendary, but all the Alteraci clans would unite against outside aggression, particularly of their ancient foe of Stromguarde.
Gilneas:
Victorian England, with a dash of Gilded Age USA—Very class based nation, with exceedingly obvious divisions of wealth. The most advanced human nation, with factories and technology rivaling gnomish innovation of about five years before. Internal tensions between those outside the cities which follow the Old Ways of the Harvest Witches and the growing influence of the Lordaeronian tradition of the Holy Light in the cities.
Kul Tiran:
Age of Discovery British/Colonial America—Basically what is in game right now is fine.
Stormwind:
Imagine the USA, if it had become a constitutional monarchy—Originally settled by those seeking a new life away from the old Empire of Arathor. Retains the Arathoran path of the Holy Light, which died out in favor of the Lordaeronian path of the Holy Light to the north. This religious divide caused constant tension between Stormwind and the other human nations.
When it was founded, certain rights the citizenry were guaranteed—such as habeas corpus—which the crown can not deny. Citizens also able to elect their monarch, though the appointment is for life. While the candidates must come from the royal bloodline of Wrynn and the eldest child of the previous king is seen as incumbent it is possible for them to be overthrown if they are not seen as worthy of sitting upon the Lion Throne. The will of the People was taken and given a total of a single vote, the Church of the Holy Light and its conclave of cardinals have a vote, and the House of Lords have a Third Vote.
All magic which is not of the Light or practiced by the royal conjurers guild was seen as suspect and likely evil, though necessity has forced this mindset to shift since the second war. You still run into it in more rural parts of the kingdom.
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Moors were expelled from Spain after the reconquista. So yeah it is whiteness now. Just like people associate Africa with blackness once you travel south.
No, Muslims and Moriscos were expelled in 1608. Sefardim were expelled in 1492, when the “Reconquista” ended with the fall of Granada and only the Nasrid ruler was expelled while his children and most of his court stayed in Spain and converted.
And many sefardim and moriscos went to America to help colonized.
See: books titled Forbidden Passages + the Disappearing Mestizo + Genealogical Fictions
It’s literally so easy to develop depth for humans using just cultural complexity of Europe and Anglo America across history
But no, people want to play race science and double dip on ethnic representation in the worldbuilding
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