That’s a cool alternative too.
Bear in mind, that there are certain houses that have a far more remarkable distinction.
For example, the Martell and the Starks.
Would you rather have said more evident thematic distinctions, or have them be more homogeneous with subtle societal, cultural or political differences that made them clash? Like the Lannisters vs Tyrell.
As long as they follow the same Arthurian legend vibe then its fine, remember all humans are technically stormwind human. If we go too different, then it becomes an allied race.
So its got to keep the same vibe but we are adding more content that has nothing to do with Andiun or Varian.
Kind of like how they did the Kultiras leveling zones with House Ashvane, Stormsong and Waycrest but we are doing this multiple times on a smaller scale for a dozen noble houses which some belong to Lordaeron, Alteract, Stromgarde and Stormwind. This should flesh out the House of Nobles as well since these guys would technically be Nobles and their power struggle with the ruling family.
I am also fine with the story considering these kingdoms killed off and these new rebuilding initiatives are attempts to rebuild them under the protection of Stormwind. As a way of having all these developments still be a thing for the race that needs the development rather than be something completely separate
At the end of the day we are trying to make the Humans Alliance race from Stormwind to be something more than faceless followers of Andiun.
So homogenous in terms of culture (architecture) mostly but go wild with costumes and other aesthetics.
So your angle would be more on a smaller scale, addressing them as noble houses instead of functional, albeit “homeless”, kingdoms. Interesting.
Would that be bad?
I mean, this ties up with something I think I mentioned earlier, but i think that the concept of playable race as a whole is something i’d tackle and reconsider at some point.
Many feel very redundant.
I would personally prune races from the character creation screen, and dump together the collectives that would logically belong under the same category.
In the humans case, create a single race that you can them customise or add features to, depending on which kingdom you prefer. Including in said tab, both the worgen curse and the Kul tiran height and weight.
I think i linked it already in this thread, but I like the approach Baldur’s Gate game had for this (game is based of course around D&D):
Replacing “subrace” with “kingdom/origin”, and having the resultant set of racial, traits, backstory, etc.
That’s a good alternative too.
Although it would far to reminiscent of the Orc situation, even if its unavoidable to make said comparison.
I think that in said regard, humans would be a bit better than orcs, as they have not been subjected to the “First Horde”, Fel curse, and subsequent internment camps trauma, that blurred so heavily the MU Orc clan lines.
Honestly maybe its just CK3 influence on me because I have been playing this game a lot recently. But yeah essentially we already have a bunch of human kingdoms that we know next to nothing about.
If we ever have revamp expansion we can use these new human leveling areas to be about fleshing out these kingdoms with individual noble houses who make up the house of nobles which will add context to both a micro level (zones) and macro level when these characters show up (hopefully) in end game content.
Oh absolutely, 100%. We dont need 50 race options
And they can do this for other races as well. More customizations are good but weaving it with world building? It can be better.
Dragon Age has only 4 races and 3 classes and is doing fine.
Anything with human nobles would be nice that isn’t the generic turning evil to be killed off 5 minutes after meet them or being cheerleaders for Anduin. That’s certainly one thing that would make Stormwind interesting as well as Stromgarde.
Another thing i wish would be touched on would be rebuilding Theramore. If the Undead can clean up the blight from Undercity there’s no reason Theramore couldn’t be rebuilt. This could be a good area to serve as a Lordaeorn Enclave. Though part of me would want to see this as a Kul Tiran colony using their assets. An enclave of Lordaeron culture though could be in a number of other different areas. Tyr’s Hand, Menethil Harbor or some other region within Stormwind’s territory.
Oops, I upvoted a comment I really disagree with in this thread. Don’t hold that against me!
Theramore was built out of necessity, with most of its citizens are dead at the hands of the Horde there is no one else to go back to, to rebuild it and for what reason? Leaving it as a wreckage would probably be better. Jaina already has a job as the leader of the Kul Tirans so no point in bringing her to Theramore.
Yes god forbid the humans get some development, make sure you have your disclaimer before the twitter mob finds you.
Twitter’s not the issue. I deactivated my twitter today, actually. Neither is kingdom development. I just don’t agree with assigning certain facial features to certain kingdoms. I feel it others someone like me. I’m Egyptian with tan skin, and if I had to come from “somwhere else,” it doesn’t feel good.
I also don’t like the part where you say you don’t want 50 races. I’d love that.
In said regard, and even if I’m going on a tangent here, I sort of wish the Forsaken had more story in said line.
After all, regardless of how inhumane they’ve turned to be, it would be nice to not let go of their human past and society.
To explain more of what I mean, I would like to have more characters and plots like the ones we had with the Barov.
It was very interesting to delve into the ramifications of a pretty “human” behaviour about the claim over the land and the family squabbling.
Given Barov represents part of the Forsaken “nobility”, hope we see more of him.
——
Back more on topic, and regarding the noble houses, I’m sort of divided regarding how they should by portrayed thematically.
Not sure if I rather have each have its “own thing” (like it happened with Kul Tiras) in a way that it carries the story by itself, or if it would be better to have them present far more subtle iterations over the same overarching theme, and further the plot through more political means.
My reasoning is simple, every single human noble house is white.
Proudmoore, Wrynn, greymane, trollbane, Menethil and so on
All white. If the PoC humans share the same lore as white humans.
Where are their noble Houses?
Do they not get any?
If yes then why not?
As for the multiple races, at some point the screen will run out of space with how many races we have or will have. Better for more organization but dont stop the cosmetic options train
It’s getting weird having to clarify every argument as if I was constantly walking on eggshells and everything I said would automatically be interpreted in an offensive way.
But just to reiterate the point Smallioz makes here:
When I mentioned I’d prune the character creation screen, I didn’t mean I wanted to remove any “race”.
I just meant, much like I think he does, that the character creation screen has become very bloated.
And several other settings and games have found ways to simplify it by creating systems like the one I linked a few posts above regarding Baldurs Gate, with “subraces”, etc.
For example, Tauren would still be playable, but upon selectin the race, you’d have a drop-down list that enabled you to select either Mulgore or Highmountain Tauren (and if they included Yaungol, they’d appear there too).
Similarly, I would do the same for Dwarves, Trolls, Orcs, Elves (Yes, I would even dump together Night elves and Nightborne), and of course……humans.
The last ones, allowing you to choose from the three currently playable Kingdoms: Stormwind, Kul Tiras, and Gilneas.
———
And with this said, I’ll try again to stick to the topic at hand
Unironically, the best human Lore is Scarlet Crusade Lore and Alterac Lore, but none of that has been relevent for like 10 years.
I have absolutely no problem with adding noble houses of different races. What comes to mind for me is the Roame family from Hearthstone. Yes, they aren’t nobles, but they are a prominent family of dark-skinned humans, and a lot of people love them. My problem would be assigning dark skin to specific kingdom. If PoC families are spread all throughout the kingdoms, all the better.
I checked the WoWpedia page for Nobles of Stormwind, and I couldn’t specifically find any nobles with dark skin or asian facial features, although there are plenty of nobles who appear in books whose appearances aren’t known. They could be PoC for all we know.
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/House_of_Nobles
Haven’t checked the other kingdoms. That’s a bit harder to do.
Interestingly, the woman who played Taria Wrynn, Varian’s mom, in the Warcraft movie, was Ethiopian and Irish. You want to make Varian’s family mixed-race?
Add a scroll wheel.
Now now…
Kul tiras lore was pretty good in its own way.
But yeah, it’s sort of sad that you are right for the EK human lore.
Edit: I’ll add, that it’s probably because contrary to Kul Tiras, that was introduced in a context that had Blizzard trying to sell us on the new expansion theme and its islands, or the Scarlets that were developed in order to at least understand who were we fighting, the rest of human lore has always sort of leaned on Wrynn or Jainas shenanigans instead of actually focusing on the race itself.
Does Varian look mixed raced to you?
If yes sure, idc. But she will be an NPC stuck in a corner and not be relevant besides some sort of easter egg.
I already described what I would find the most optimal.
Because none exist.
I am asking for them to exist and the twitter degenerates call it skull measuring.
And yes they will be more than an easter egg that is not relevant to the plot
I haven’t touched hearthstone after the Shadowlands themed expansion.
Not that I played much of it anyway…
I liked the Barov’s a lot too. That would be one thing i’d like to see in a world revamp if we ever got one. Since both factions lorewise currently control some of their territory. I believe they owned Brill and Southshore and a few other places. Would be cool to place the Forsaken brother in Brill maybe with his own estate and the human brother has his own manor/estate at rebuilt Southshore.
They could retcon him if they’re bold enough to retcon a major character. I was using that as an example of a poc noble in other media.
I didn’t read all your posts in this thread, sorry. We weren’t having a conversation until recently.
Are you sure that is what they’re referring to? Your first post in this thread was this.
Here, you didn’t mention anything about Poc nobles, but suggested that WoW humans should have different skin tones based on their region.
I’m pretty sure that skull measurer comment was directed at the OP, since it was right after one of their posts, where they made multiple references to physical features. I can’t speak for the poster who made that comment or their mindset.
The Roame family was featured way before Murder at Castle Nathria. They’re a black family from Stormwind. Cornelius Roame is a guard, Cariel Roame is a Paladin, and Tamsin Roame is a Forsaken Warlock.
That would be really dumb, he is already in many cinematics, are they going to re-render him in all those cinematics as mixed race?
What about Andiun? Him too probably right?
Pretty bad suggestion as far as suggestions went for Human development.
Yes… because nobles own land and they can’t all be from the same location. Like Waycrest having dominion over Drustvar for example, Stormsongs being from Stormsong Valley and Ashvane being another Noble house from Tiragarde Sound. If more Noble houses are added, some will be from Westfall, some from Duskwood, some from Redridge, some from Wetlands, some from Arathi Highlands, some from Hillsbrad, some from Silverpine, some from WPL, some from EPL, some from Hinterlands (maybe), some from Alterac mountains and so on and so on.
Idk if humans used to live in Swamp of Sorrows or what used to be Blasted Lands but yes they might be from that region too.
None of what you quoted is actually contrary to what I have said.
Yeah the last expansion I was really active in was the Lichking one. Haven’t played much since and by the shadowlands thing I completely quit.
Unironically would be based and would send so many people in an insane flurry that I would greatly enjoy
Could be Cameron Boyce looking and people would still be mad
They retcon’d Natalie Seline which was wonderful and made me happy, albeit she should be undead
The Roames should be more prominently featured for both Stormwind and the Forsaken